Strictly Come Dancing

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by jonpandkatew on Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:54 am

Frank wrote:
Exactly, they can't have their cake and eat it. For me, entertainment value that he is, John is at the bottom of the leader board simply because he isn't as good as the others and he's only survived because the public have been endeared by his antics. I reckon he'll be in the dance off tonight. Very Happy

Spoiler:
I'm afraid Digital Spy has Lisa and Cherie, Cherie out

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by John Winterton on Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:28 pm

Frank wrote:A shame former contestants are having a go at John. I don't care how lovely Mark's pecs are - he was a bloomin' rotten dancer. Hae to say that the men aren't quite as delicious as they were last year. Tom Ellis is quite nice and Austin has magnificent arms but they're no Matt Di Angelo or Gethin Jones!

Very true - I was a particular fan of Gethin. Mind you, I did find myself rather drawn to Cherie's partner, James, last night, partly due to that waistcoat outfit he was wearing ... Wink

John

PS - Yay! John's through again - a nation rejoices (despite a sour comment from Len No )! Very Happy

PPS - initially sorry that James (yes, I know he was the pro, but he was the one I was watching!) was knocked out, but went right off him on hearing him pontificating about "vote for the dancing" or whatever. Never seen a show where both the head judge, and an ejected contestant, both see fit to carp at one of the survivors ... Rolling Eyes
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Sun Nov 16, 2008 3:57 pm

John Winterton wrote:
Frank wrote:A shame former contestants are having a go at John. I don't care how lovely Mark's pecs are - he was a bloomin' rotten dancer. Hae to say that the men aren't quite as delicious as they were last year. Tom Ellis is quite nice and Austin has magnificent arms but they're no Matt Di Angelo or Gethin Jones!

Very true - I was a particular fan of Gethin. Mind you, I did find myself rather drawn to Cherie's partner, James, last night, partly due to that waistcoat outfit he was wearing ... Wink

John

PS - Yay! John's through again - a nation rejoices (despite a sour comment from Len No )! Very Happy

PPS - initially sorry that James (yes, I know he was the pro, but he was the one I was watching!) was knocked out, but went right off him on hearing him pontificating about "vote for the dancing" or whatever. Never seen a show where both the head judge, and an ejected contestant, both see fit to carp at one of the survivors ... Rolling Eyes

Hmmm, rather annoyed that Cherie got the boot. She was fantastic. I'm afraid I'm with Len, it's not just a personality contest. It's about the flippin' dancing too!
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Sid Seadevil on Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:28 pm

Frank wrote:Hmmm, rather annoyed that Cherie got the boot. She was fantastic. I'm afraid I'm with Len, it's not just a personality contest. It's about the flippin' dancing too!
I'm with you on this one. It's a disgrace that we're getting to this point in the competition and people who deserve to be progressing through into the final stages are being jettisoned in preference to somebody who really couldn't give a toss about the very competition he's a part of.

He's cynically manipulating the entire contest - and he's long since lost his entertainment value as far as Kate and I are concerned.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Kate on Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:12 pm

I'm appalled at the total lack of integrity displayed by John Sargeant. He doesn't care about actually learning the dances or improving and has said so in interviews. And he is putting his professional partner in an untenable position.

The voting public have just proved, once again, to have no taste. Is this the revolt by Johnny pleb, championing the mediocre and bullish against the 'beautiful people'?

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by John Winterton on Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:14 am

Sid Seadevil wrote:
Frank wrote:Hmmm, rather annoyed that Cherie got the boot. She was fantastic. I'm afraid I'm with Len, it's not just a personality contest. It's about the flippin' dancing too!
I'm with you on this one. It's a disgrace that we're getting to this point in the competition and people who deserve to be progressing through into the final stages are being jettisoned in preference to somebody who really couldn't give a toss about the very competition he's a part of.

He's cynically manipulating the entire contest - and he's long since lost his entertainment value as far as Kate and I are concerned.

Well, evidently quite a lot of people beg to differ - but each to their own! Smile

What concerns me about the judges' attitude is that it seems to be saying to the older, overweight male celebrities (funny there are no overweight female celebrities Rolling Eyes ) whom the programme makers insist on inviting: "OK, we've had a laugh at your clumsy antics for a few weeks: now have the decency to naff off out of it".

As I said earlier, this is mainly an entertainment show. If the programme makers don't want the possibility of a recurrence next year, and want a strict assessment of "pure" dancing excellence, then (a) don't hold a public vote (it is unrealistic to assume that most of the audience are qualified to judge the minutiae of dancing performance, and personality is always bound to come into their considerations - John's case is just an extreme example), and/or (b) don't invite overweight, ageing male celebs. But that isn't how the programme currently works, and for Len and others effectively to attack one of the contestants, and urge people not to vote for him, on screen, strikes me as being both inappropriate and sour. I hope, in fact, it has the reverse effect and encourages even more people to vote for John, if only to show up the programme's hypocrisy, and expose the unpleasantness of its attitude towards John's "type" of participant.

John to win! pirat


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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by barnaby morbius on Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:49 am

Kate Seadevil wrote:I'm appalled at the total lack of integrity displayed by John Sargeant. He doesn't care about actually learning the dances or improving and has said so in interviews. And he is putting his professional partner in an untenable position.

The voting public have just proved, once again, to have no taste. Is this the revolt by Johnny pleb, championing the mediocre and bullish against the 'beautiful people'?

i disagree with you kate. john has apparently lost 2 stone since the contest so presumably he has been working hard. he's not as good a dancer as anyone else but he is quite old and rather tubby. he's obviously enjoying himself and fair play to him.

gutted about cherie though...
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:34 am

John Winterton wrote:
Sid Seadevil wrote:
Frank wrote:Hmmm, rather annoyed that Cherie got the boot. She was fantastic. I'm afraid I'm with Len, it's not just a personality contest. It's about the flippin' dancing too!
I'm with you on this one. It's a disgrace that we're getting to this point in the competition and people who deserve to be progressing through into the final stages are being jettisoned in preference to somebody who really couldn't give a toss about the very competition he's a part of.

He's cynically manipulating the entire contest - and he's long since lost his entertainment value as far as Kate and I are concerned.

Well, evidently quite a lot of people beg to differ - but each to their own! Smile

What concerns me about the judges' attitude is that it seems to be saying to the older, overweight male celebrities (funny there are no overweight female celebrities Rolling Eyes ) whom the programme makers insist on inviting: "OK, we've had a laugh at your clumsy antics for a few weeks: now have the decency to naff off out of it".

As I said earlier, this is mainly an entertainment show. If the programme makers don't want the possibility of a recurrence next year, and want a strict assessment of "pure" dancing excellence, then (a) don't hold a public vote (it is unrealistic to assume that most of the audience are qualified to judge the minutiae of dancing performance, and personality is always bound to come into their considerations - John's case is just an extreme example), and/or (b) don't invite overweight, ageing male celebs. But that isn't how the programme currently works, and for Len and others effectively to attack one of the contestants, and urge people not to vote for him, on screen, strikes me as being both inappropriate and sour. I hope, in fact, it has the reverse effect and encourages even more people to vote for John, if only to show up the programme's hypocrisy, and expose the unpleasantness of its attitude towards John's "type" of participant.

John to win! pirat


John

But by that token then Don Warrington should still be there. And Andrew Castle. I don't think it is an 'unpleasantness of attitude'. The judges are there to judge the dancing. The public are plainly ignoring their comments. They might as well not be there and it might as well be a free for all. I think there are couples there who are genuinely in it for the competition. I think John was hugely entertaining for the first five o0r six weeks. But the joke's over. When the likes of Cherie get booted off, the competition element becomes a bit of a farce.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:42 am

John Sargent will be knocked out in the next few weeks, he is not going to be ing the finals. The thing is, Cheri was never going to be in the finals either. Yes, her ChaCha was good, but my mother, an ex-ballroom dancer, said that it did not sparkle, that Cheri really was not good enough at the Latin American dances to go any further.
It has been so obvious for weeks that the three celebrities who will be in the final are Tom, Austin and Rachel. So it does not matter what order the also rans drop out, it will not affect the Final.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:06 am

The Browncoat Cat wrote:John Sargent will be knocked out in the next few weeks, he is not going to be ing the finals. The thing is, Cheri was never going to be in the finals either. Yes, her ChaCha was good, but my mother, an ex-ballroom dancer, said that it did not sparkle, that Cheri really was not good enough at the Latin American dances to go any further.
It has been so obvious for weeks that the three celebrities who will be in the final are Tom, Austin and Rachel. So it does not matter what order the also rans drop out, it will not affect the Final.

Granted, Cheri wasn't that good. The Latins were her weakest dances. But she had improved on the Cha Cha this week. My other favourite, Christine, will hopefully get a bit further. Yep, Tom, Austin and Rachel should be the the last three battling it out. Although, mad as it may seem, it wouldn't completely surprise me if John end up in the final. Mad
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by John Winterton on Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:02 am

Frank wrote:But by that token then Don Warrington should still be there. And Andrew Castle. I don't think it is an 'unpleasantness of attitude'. The judges are there to judge the dancing. The public are plainly ignoring their comments. They might as well not be there and it might as well be a free for all. I think there are couples there who are genuinely in it for the competition. I think John was hugely entertaining for the first five o0r six weeks. But the joke's over. When the likes of Cherie get booted off, the competition element becomes a bit of a farce.

But:

(a) while it is for the judges to give their views on the technical proficiency of the dancers, the fact is that that is only one aspect of the show, and they really shouldn't expect slavish adherence from the public, who are perfectly entitled to have regard to wider considerations such as entertainment value and personality. The judges have their own marks to give, so their views ipso facto count for something, and they may also, to a greater or lesser degree, influence the public voting: that is all they have a reasonable right to expect. The public aren't bound to follow the judges' advice - else why have a public vote at all?

(b) if it really is intended to be a competition purely based on dancing excellence, why on earth invite the likes of John and Don on in the first place? Next year, confine it to people who are a bit younger, and a lot fitter, if that is what one wants.

The programme makers are, it seems to me, trying to have it both ways - seeking to profit from all the glitz and hype associated with a high-ratings "entertainment" show, but on the other hand trying to treat it, when it suits them, as a "serious" dance contest. All that John has done is expose the inherent inconsistencies of such an approach.

Apologies that the above has got a bit ranty Embarassed - it's just that I like John, and I don't find the queue of judges lining up to have a go at him (Arlene was on breakfast TV today) very appealing or edifying. Also I'm a sucker for an underdog, plus I'm feeling a bit anarchic at the moment pirat! I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one, Frank! Smile

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:21 am

John Winterton wrote: I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one, Frank! Smile

John

John, it is, after all, just a bit of entertaining telly. Addictive, entertaining telly at that! And this is I'm sure a difference of opinion that's going on across the nation and ultimately makes people want to keep watching! Laughing
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Kate on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:32 am

I was really upset when I posted earlier... I really should know better... Rolling Eyes

What annoys me the most is this shouldn't be about who's the most entertaining but who shows the most development throughout the show... that's just how I feel.

John plateaued out weeks ago. He is not going to improve as much as other dancers. It has nothing to do with his age, weight or anything else.

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by John Winterton on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:41 am

Frank wrote:John, it is, after all, just a bit of entertaining telly. Addictive, entertaining telly at that! And this is I'm sure a difference of opinion that's going on across the nation and ultimately makes people want to keep watching! Laughing

Thanks for this, Frank: I'm sure you're right - the papers were full of it today. The Telegraph even had a cartoon of Gordon Brown dressed up as John, huffing and puffing away, with a caption along the lines: "How on earth is he still there?"

I just hope people don't have too much of a personal go at John, as, if there is any fault, it lies in the nature of the programme. I'm not sure what those who aren't (to put it mildly) too keen on his remaining in the contest actually expect him to do about it - quit? Appeal to people to stop voting for him? Crying or Very sad

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by delgadofan on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:25 am

I'm convinced that John is actually trying hard each week, which is a crucial point.

Despite that, I *did* find it uncomfortable viewing last night. In other words, I'm not quite sure WHAT to think about the controversy. My allegiance seems to swing constantly.

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by millerqueen on Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:57 pm

I don't watch strictly, but I'm lead to believe that JS has a growing support of students and other people who take the "ironic" view of life. it's hard to fight against student "irony" but that's the joy against public voting. If the next doctor who were up for public voting (s)he'd be the least loved doctor ever
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:39 am

millerqueen wrote:I don't watch strictly, but I'm lead to believe that JS has a growing support of students and other people who take the "ironic" view of life. it's hard to fight against student "irony" but that's the joy against public voting. If the next doctor who were up for public voting (s)he'd be the least loved doctor ever
The thing is, there are more people who vote for the dancing than for the irony, but in the early stages of teh competition there are so many good dancers to choose from that their vote is diluted. Now that there are only a handful of dancers left, the people who vote for the dancing will concentrate on one or two dancers, and that will be more than enough to outvote the ironic. It happened last year with Kenny Logan, it happened before that with Julian Clarey. Next week, JS is toast.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:56 am

Damn it! I'm now bloody addicted to It Takes Two. Geoff innocently (yeah!) switched the telly box to BBC 2 whilst I was tucking into my dinner last night and Claudia and Co now have me wanting to see more. John S was actually very good in defending himself on that last night and my own opinion keeps vacillating too. Oh, dear.
Arlene had a bit of a dig didn't she...meeeeooooowwwww!
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:59 am

It appears that John Sargeant has announced his withdrawal from the competition.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:34 am

He sure has........

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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:29 am

The Co=Ordinator wrote:He sure has........
I can't say I'm not surprised. But I also suspected he would have been voted off this week simply by the law of averages on the voting front as the contestants get whittled down. So maybe he should have hung on in there for one more week.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:10 am

Well, John Sargent has pulled out of of Strictly Come Dancing. This was posted on the programme's web site:
"It was always my intention to have fun on the show and I was hoping to stay in as long as possible. The trouble is that there is now a real danger that I might win the competition. Even for me that would be a joke too far. I would like to thank Kristina and all those viewers who have been rooting for me through the series."
- John Sargent, 19th November, 2008.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:53 am

Frank wrote:
The Co=Ordinator wrote:He sure has........
I can't say I'm not surprised. But I also suspected he would have been voted off this week simply by the law of averages on the voting front as the contestants get whittled down. So maybe he should have hung on in there for one more week.
I'm not so should he wouldn't have survived for at least another week, so I'm pleased he's bitten the bullet and done the right thing by walking now.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by Frank on Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:36 pm

Sid Seadevil wrote:
Frank wrote:
The Co=Ordinator wrote:He sure has........
I can't say I'm not surprised. But I also suspected he would have been voted off this week simply by the law of averages on the voting front as the contestants get whittled down. So maybe he should have hung on in there for one more week.
I'm not so should he wouldn't have survived for at least another week, so I'm pleased he's bitten the bullet and done the right thing by walking now.

Well, having watched It Takes Two, I was very upset for Christina when she got emotional about the whole thing. And John didn't even comfort her! Cherie's partner was a tad harsh but I could understand what he meant about John's manipulation of the situation. I don't think he should have quit. He should have stuck it out and battled through as I'm with Craig on the fact that the voters would eventually have chosen another couple over John and Christina.
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Re: Strictly Come Dancing

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:30 pm

Frank wrote:Well, having watched It Takes Two, I was very upset for Christina when she got emotional about the whole thing. And John didn't even comfort her!
Which was John Sargeant proving just how old fashioned, Middle Class and English he is.

Frank wrote:Cherie's partner was a tad harsh but I could understand what he meant about John's manipulation of the situation. I don't think he should have quit. He should have stuck it out and battled through as I'm with Craig on the fact that the voters would eventually have chosen another couple over John and Christina.
I think both Craig Revil-Horwood and James Jordan were wrong. When John Sargeant survived last week, I realised that we might be in a Christopher Parker situation, that word of mouth and media interest would propel a "rubbish" dancer to the final. This would not be good for Strictly Come Dancing, John Sargeant realised this, which is why he dropped out.
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