Rate "Tooth & Claw"

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Rate "Tooth & Claw"

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Total Votes : 14

Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Patrick on Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:20 am

We have now arrived at episode 2 of Series 2: "Tooth & Claw."

Martial arts flying monks, a side bet on a favorite line by Queen Victoria, a non-Christmas use for Mistletoe, and the origin of Torchwood. So, did you like it, or do you think a trip to 1979 would have been better?

Let's be hearing from you!

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Nick Barlow on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:07 pm

I like it - a decent shot of adrenalin into the historical adventure, with a good sense of fun and lots of shocks and scares along the way. 4/5

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Zoltar on Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:43 pm

Lots of fun, and a bit mad. I wish Tennant had used his natural accent as the Doctor. 4/5 from me.

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:25 pm

I agree entirely with what The Councillor and Zoltar said. Another 4/5. Smile

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Ginger Ninja on Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:19 pm

Best "New Who" right up untill Vincent and the Doctor. Brilliant story, no plot holes, ninja monks and a Werewolf! (Actually its a Lupine Wavelength Haemovariform but everyone knows that)
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Rich Flair on Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:14 pm

One plot hole, Ninja - what happened to the monks? Did they run away?
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by stanmore on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:46 am

A largely tedious runaround, an irritating running gag, and probably the only time I believe the naysayers when they describe The Doctor and Rose as "smug". I like Ian Dury and Tennant's scottish accent, mind you. 2/5
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:49 am

A terrible mess. While the main story itself is solid this story features some of the worst points of Nu Who and an absolute low point for Rose. People are being ripped to pieces by a Warewolf and all Rose seems to care about is whether she can get Queen Vic to say "We are not amused" or not (she then even goes on to celebrate at the end, even though Vic doesn't say this, she says "I am not amused!") The fact that the monks are left behind is rediculess, considering that the episode was heavily marketed to feature 'Kung-fu monks' at the time. 2/5 because the Warewolf looks brilliant and in there somewhere is one of RTD's cleverest stories. It's a shame that by this point, Rose and her wee-poor character were really starting to ruin episodes for me.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Rich Flair on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:46 am

Brilliant stuff. Beautifully directed, lush visuals and costumes. Horror of Fang Rock on speed. Excellent Werewolf. Nice portrayal of Queen Vic, and of an Albert fighting monsters from beyond the grave. Doctor and Rose likeable and witty, and having a laugh. I don't know why some people have a stick up their arse about Rose having a laugh in the face of danger, but they do. (Imagine if they applied this to The Doctor, 11 would take a right kicking).

To address some of Johnstone's points: I'm not sure that the marketing of the episode was based around the monks, and definitely not heavily - I recall that it was more werewolf based. And to say that all Rose cares for is her joke on Queen Vic is nonsense. That would negate all the selfless and heroic things she actually did do in the episode. Perhaps she should have had a stiff upper lip and not joke around so much, because the idea presented in series 2 that The Doctor and Rose actually enjoy spending their time together was perhaps a bit too radical for large portions of Doctor Who fandom who were used to the joy-free zone of the 5th Doctor's crew or the Doctor-Ace relationship which relied on emotional manipulation.

One other point - I loved Tennant's Casanova accent, and was glad that the Doctor's Scottish accent didn't come back after this episode. One Scottish Doctor was enough for me, thanks.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:57 am

There's a difference between 'enjoying travelling with someone' and making jokes as the people you're trying to save are being ripped to pieces by a bloodthirsty Werewolf. The nature of the joke suggested that they were still poncing about in history and not fighting a very dangerous alien. If you want to throw jokes like that in, do some kind of Black Orchid remake.

As much as I hate to say it there's enjoying traveling and being close friends/in love and then there's whatever obsessive complex that Rose had. Even Moffat has described her as too needy.

For what its worth Rose picks up big time in the next few episodes.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Rich Flair on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:04 am

Johnstone McGuckian wrote:There's a difference between 'enjoying travelling with someone' and making jokes as the people you're trying to save are being ripped to pieces by a bloodthirsty Werewolf. The nature of the joke suggested that they were still poncing about in history and not fighting a very dangerous alien. If you want to throw jokes like that in, do some kind of Black Orchid remake.

You make it sound like Rose is stood about making jokes as the people she's trying to save are being ripped to pieces by a bloodthirsty Werewolf. Which isn't actually what happened.

As much as I hate to say it there's enjoying traveling and being close friends/in love and then there's whatever obsessive complex that Rose had. Even Moffat has described her as too needy.

For what its worth Rose picks up big time in the next few episodes.

You seem to be saying that Rose had an 'obsessive complex' beyond being a 19 year old girl in love. I really can't see why you would say that.

And as for Moffat describing Rose as 'too needy', here is the exact quote: "You have to hand it to the Doctor for dumping a slightly needy girlfriend by palming her off on a copy of himself. He tried leaving her in a parallel universe and that didn't work!". Which doesn't really tell us anything about Moffat's opinion, nor does it back up your 'obsessive complex' theory.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:43 am

A very disappointing story. I cannot understand why at the time, the majority of people on Outpost Gallifrey loved this story and hated New Earth. It is as Tom said, a tedious run around, that would not have been out of place in any earlier era of the series.
I hate the opening scene, it just makes no sense what so ever. Why would Roman Catholic monks dress like Chinese monks under their robes. Why would the practice wuxia style martial arts in the first place, and who would have trained them?
Also, a minor historical niggle, the women's clothes are wrong. If the story is set in 1879, why are they dressed in outfits more appropriate to the mid 1880's? You would expect better from the BBC.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Rich Flair on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:55 am

The Browncoat Cat wrote:Also, a minor historical niggle, the women's clothes are wrong. If the story is set in 1879, why are they dressed in outfits more appropriate to the mid 1880's? You would expect better from the BBC.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the winner of the award for Most Tedious Nit-pick .
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:31 am

Not that I am actually complaining. I actually find that era of Victorian clothing strangely sexy.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Zoltar on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:05 am

I don't know that I buy the "smug" label. And, even if I did, so what? I'm not looking for perfect people on this show.

Rich Flair wrote:One other point - I loved Tennant's Casanova accent, and was glad that the Doctor's Scottish accent didn't come back after this episode. One Scottish Doctor was enough for me, thanks.
I now find myself hoping Doc #12 is Scottish and brilliant. I like his "Casanova" accent as well, I merely prefer his natural accent to it.

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Dave Webb on Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:21 am

5/5 from me.

I love this tedious runaround. It has Kung Fu monks, humour as a tension breaker, which allows the tension to climb and climb. It has a pistol-packin' Empress of India, it has self-sacrifice, it has Prince Albert not being a dullard, it has bags of energy and a nice, calm dinner party in the middle during which we can wonder what would have happened if Victoria had been that cool in real life.

Tennant is good, Billie is good, Rose gets to remind us that she has a nascent political consciousness (again. Seriously, what is it with her and attempting to spread Marxist teachings around the working classes? The little minx) and, of course, the creation of Torchwood.

Ultimately, it's a piece of disposable telly. But it's a really good bit of disposable telly.

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by andrea on Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:17 am

I gave it 3 eventually but I find it a strange one as I sort of swerve wildly between 'Oh yes, great' and 'On no, awful' when I watch it, with not much in between.
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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Patrick on Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:11 pm

I gave this story a 4. My reasons:

Coming off the underwhelming New Earth, this story was an absolute treat! Flying monks, a manor house on Scottish moorland with a werewolf, excellent chemistry between Billie and David, and a yarn with lots of frightening moments. Add to this that Murray Gold's score for this episode is a personal favorite of mine, and this story works for me on virtually every level.

I know there are those who dislike the theme of Series 2, but I enjoyed it- The Doctor has found his favorite in Rose, and as their relationship grows, the universe begins to get a bit harder around them. This was a very nice early season favorite for me.

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Re: Rate "Tooth & Claw"

Post by Rich Flair on Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:23 pm

The Browncoat Cat wrote:Not that I am actually complaining. I actually find that era of Victorian clothing strangely sexy.

She's certainly packing something round back!
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