All things Trek

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All things Trek

Post by sheringham on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:07 am

Someone had to do it............

So. Do you trek? If so, why? If not, why not? Do you like all the shows or just some of them?

Personally - I loved TOS as a child. It was very much part of my comfort zone landscape. I loved Spock, and Bones, and the relationship between them and Jim. It's no co-incidence my favourite episodes are the one where Spock gets dandelion pollen in his face, and the one where Spock forgets himself and shows happiness that Kirk isn't dead (AKA the other side of Paradise and Amok time - I think. I'm not a trek anorak though so I may be wrong).

These days - I still have a residual fondness for TOS. But we don't watch it much (if at all).

The films - yep. Love (some of) them. Specifically anything relating to 'I was and always will be your friend' or 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few ' (or vice versa). Not fussed after that arc was completed at the end of the one with the whales.

Next gen - Must we? Really???? Oh. Alright then. I suppose. But don't expect me to enjoy it (or rather - don't expect me to admit I'm enjoying it on those occasions when I do). I am not a merry man. Nice house. Good tea. Classic lines which go a long way to make up for some of the inanities with which they are surrounded. Plus the Borg are good. And the one where Picard ends up as Locutus (and then kills Jennifer Sisko :mad: ) is very good indeed.

Deep Space 9 - known in this house as doobidy doo (cos, see, that's how the music goes. Doobidy doo, doo - biddy doo! Doobiddy doo, doo - bibiddy doo - doo etc etc). Embarassed Definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite programme in the world except for Doctor Who. I did think that maybe TWW had overtaken it (Losty too) but a rewatch with the kids this year, from start to finish, confirmed for me that Doobidy is a total and utter masterpiece. To be honest, if there is interest in a purely DS 9 thread I'd love to participate. I bloody love this programme. Abslolutely adore it.

Voyager - me no likey. Me avoidy as much as possible - sadly the hubby and the kids feel differently. We are currently enduring daily Voyager courtesy of Virgin 1 and the PVR thingy. Still - we're getting close to when 7 joins and the series picks up after that (even though I despised the character of 7 and particularly her costume)

Enterprise - First of all, I avoided this like the plague. Then I became a huge fan. then it ended in a vile and horrible way which has totally devalued everything that went before and I won' be encouraging the kids to watch this.

So, anyway - trek. Discuss. Or, you know - not.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Patrick on Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:36 am

sheringham wrote:Someone had to do it............

So. Do you trek? If so, why? If not, why not? Do you like all the shows or just some of them?

*Raises hand*
I loved it, and still do. In my formative years, there were three television shows which made a lasting impact on my love of the sci-fi/sci-fantasy genre: The Twilight Zone (and since it's also a Rod Serling creation, Night Gallery), Star Trek and Doctor Who. Shows with concepts and themes that challenged the viewer to keep up.

sheringham wrote:Personally - I loved TOS as a child. It was very much part of my comfort zone landscape. I loved Spock, and Bones, and the relationship between them and Jim. It's no co-incidence my favourite episodes are the one where Spock gets dandelion pollen in his face, and the one where Spock forgets himself and shows happiness that Kirk isn't dead (AKA the other side of Paradise and Amok time - I think. I'm not a trek anorak though so I may be wrong).

These days - I still have a residual fondness for TOS. But we don't watch it much (if at all).

I read an article once upon a time that posed the theory that Kirk, Spock and McCoy represented- in Freudian terms- the Id, Ego and Superego, which is why their chemistry on screen worked so well together. For this reason, my all time, bar-none, nobody-does-it-better, favorite episode of TOS is 'City on the Edge of Forever.'

sheringham wrote:The films - yep. Love (some of) them. Specifically anything relating to 'I was and always will be your friend' or 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few ' (or vice versa). Not fussed after that arc was completed at the end of the one with the whales.

I understand that "Undiscovered Country" was originally supposed to be much more of an analysis of Klingon culture and understanding why they are the way they are. Much of that got cut, and, in Leonard Nimoy's book "I Am Spock," he expressed serious regret that the film devolved down to become a lower-case Manchurian Candidate in space.

sheringham wrote:Next gen - Must we? Really???? Oh. Alright then. I suppose. But don't expect me to enjoy it (or rather - don't expect me to admit I'm enjoying it on those occasions when I do). I am not a merry man. Nice house. Good tea. Classic lines which go a long way to make up for some of the inanities with which they are surrounded. Plus the Borg are good. And the one where Picard ends up as Locutus (and then kills Jennifer Sisko :mad: ) is very good indeed.

Where do you think Next Gen got its ideas from? Let's see: Q, and all-powerful figure capable of bending reality to his whim and 'playing' with people as though they were toys for his amusement. The Borg, cybernetic bad guys who move en masse, and make you like them. If creativity is the art of concealing your sources, the writers at TNG ought to be paying royalties to classic Who.

But they did master tech-talk, and Data's ability to offer comment on 'the human condition' are almost as insightful as Spock's. A worthy successor to the original.

sheringham wrote:Deep Space 9 - known in this house as doobidy doo (cos, see, that's how the music goes. Doobidy doo, doo - biddy doo! Doobiddy doo, doo - bibiddy doo - doo etc etc). Embarassed Definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite programme in the world except for Doctor Who. I did think that maybe TWW had overtaken it (Losty too) but a rewatch with the kids this year, from start to finish, confirmed for me that Doobidy is a total and utter masterpiece. To be honest, if there is interest in a purely DS 9 thread I'd love to participate. I bloody love this programme. Abslolutely adore it.

DS9 was always about being the wild west outpost in space. I think it took this show a year or two to really find its feet and get going, but when it did, it could be epic when it needed to be.

Still, as much as I enjoyed DS9, I think I liked its rival (Babylon 5) slightly better.

sheringham wrote:Voyager - me no likey. Me avoidy as much as possible - sadly the hubby and the kids feel differently. We are currently enduring daily Voyager courtesy of Virgin 1 and the PVR thingy. Still - we're getting close to when 7 joins and the series picks up after that (even though I despised the character of 7 and particularly her costume)

I rather liked the mother-daughter dynamic of Janeway and Seven. And the Neelix-Tuvok encounters were almost as entertaining as the Spock-McCoy dynamic. We should see about getting Dave Webb in here- he does some highly entertaining cross-over fan fic between the crew of Voyager and Eccleston's ninth Doctor.

sheringham wrote:Enterprise - First of all, I avoided this like the plague. Then I became a huge fan. then it ended in a vile and horrible way which has totally devalued everything that went before and I won' be encouraging the kids to watch this.

Enterprise was the Twin Peaks of Trekdom. This whole time-war storyline was drawn out for far too long, with too many non-arc stories in between attempting to link the show to all the shows that had come before it, as if too say "hey, look, we're a Trek franchise, too! Over here! Watch us!" I can't say I really liked it.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:53 pm

sheringham wrote:Next gen - Must we? Really???? Oh. Alright then. I suppose. But don't expect me to enjoy it (or rather - don't expect me to admit I'm enjoying it on those occasions when I do).
I hated Next Generation. They were so safe and predictable, never leaving the Federation. They acted like Social Workers. Every mission would involve a Case Conference meeting in the Captain's Ready Room. They were all so PC and dull, and would die before even considering "Boldly Going" anywhere. I prefered Voyager to Next Gen.

sheringham wrote:Enterprise - First of all, I avoided this like the plague. Then I became a huge fan. then it ended in a vile and horrible way which has totally devalued everything that went before and I won' be encouraging the kids to watch this.
Well, it is easy to avoid Beavis and Butthead's final #@(<-you to Trek Fandom, as it comes at the end and is more or less self-contained.

Really looking forward to Trek XI, even if I do think that Simon Pegg is horribly miscast.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Sid Seadevil on Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:24 am

I adore TOS with an undying passion. Couldn't give a toss for ST:TNG any more, deeply admire DS9, am less than lukewarm to Voy and the less said about Enterprise the better.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Frank on Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:48 am

I'm deeply fond of TOS. Indeed, I'm currently watching Season One of the sparkly new CGI'd version and I have to say. It is fab-u-lous. It's as part of my childhood as DW, the Anderson stuff, Irwin Allen etc etc.
Liked TNG to an extent but adored DS9. Couldn't give a fig for Voyager or Enterprise, I'm afraid. Didn't ring my bells so to speak.
Movies - all the TOS ones, bar Final Frontier, are still pretty good entertainment. Less said about Generations the better. But First Contact was darn good. The last two, alas, are forgettable.

And here's a piece in today's Guardian about the new movie...warning spoilers!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2008/nov/11/star-trek-first-look
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Patrick on Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:54 am

Frank wrote:And here's a piece in today's Guardian about the new movie...warning spoilers!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2008/nov/11/star-trek-first-look

Must... resist... urge to... click link! Must... remain... spoiler free!
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Lee Carey on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:05 am

Patrick wrote:
Frank wrote:And here's a piece in today's Guardian about the new movie...warning spoilers!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/filmblog/2008/nov/11/star-trek-first-look

Must... resist... urge to... click link! Must... remain... spoiler free!
Just to make it worse for you, here's the BBC's write up!

Very Happy

(By the way, impressive... impersonation... of William... Shatner there, Patrick.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Patrick on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:17 am

Lee Carey wrote:Just to make it worse for you, here's the BBC's write up!

Very Happy

(By the way, impressive... impersonation... of William... Shatner there, Patrick.

*snarls lips and screams into handheld communicator*

LEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!

*echoes of 'Lee' reverberate around planetoid*
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Zoltar on Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:54 pm

Lee Carey wrote:
Patrick wrote:Must... resist... urge to... click link! Must... remain... spoiler free!
(By the way, impressive... impersonation... of William... Shatner there, Patrick.
So that's where he picked up "How you doin'?" Wink
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Patrick on Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:10 pm

Zoltar wrote:
Lee Carey wrote:
Patrick wrote:Must... resist... urge to... click link! Must... remain... spoiler free!
(By the way, impressive... impersonation... of William... Shatner there, Patrick.
So that's where he picked up "How you doin'?" Wink

When I saw Joey from Friends piloting the Jupiter 2 in Lost in Space, a link got forged. What can I say?

Smile
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Sid Seadevil on Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:31 pm

<Ray Parker Jr.>I ain't clicking no link!</Ray Parker Jr.>
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:30 am

To make things tidier I've opened a dedicated Trek film thread. So prepare to energise and transport yourself over to...Here for all movie related discussions.

Make it so!
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:03 am

For me, early Trek seems great fun when its on form, but tedious drivel when its not making much effort. The casual sexism is hilarious though.

The Next Gen had some great episodes - the Borg one when Jean Luc is captured, the brilliant one where Jean-Luc lives a whole lifetime on a farm with his brother, the Time's Arrow one (I think) with Guinan...they spring to mind.
DS9 was by far the best series in terms of consistant and solid world building with fully rounded characters.
Voyager was just....dull and uninspired.
I've never seen Enterprise.

The trouble with the franchise is that they all just merge into one big grey blur to me. Unlike say, Doctor Who which has episodes that feel very distinct, Trek just feels so damn monolithically samey.
The plots tend to endlessly and shamelessly recycle again and again. It all feels quite depressing and stifled really.

I can see why the new film hopefully will be a fresh shot in its arm.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:14 am

Lee Mansfield wrote:The trouble with the franchise is that they all just merge into one big grey blur to me. Unlike say, Doctor Who which has episodes that feel very distinct, Trek just feels so damn monolithically samey.
The plots tend to endlessly and shamelessly recycle again and again. It all feels quite depressing and stifled really.

I can see why the new film hopefully will be a fresh shot in its arm.
That's exactly the problem I have with a vast majority of Trek from Next Gen onwards, Lee. Excluding vast swaths of DS9 - which dared to be different from the rest of the franchise whenever it could get away with it.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by sheringham on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:44 am

DS9 was wonderfully inventive. The next gen world is very black and white, primary colours, plot and motivations by numbers. DS 9 - it's every shade of grey there is. And some that hadn't been invented yet. If you just look at the Sisko - Ducat arc - the way that relationship changes, the things both men do.............the lengths they go to, the sacrifices they make........I genuinely think that Ben Sisko is one of the finest characters ever seen on TV. And Gul Ducat (Mark Alaimo, AKA Gene Sciapesi from Hill St Blues) was superb too.

And another thing - every single DS 9 episode has something of worth in it. Even if it's just a couple of exchanges between quark and Odo, Miles and Julian or Worf and...well, anyone really.

The final 9 episodes of DS 9 are some of the best telly ever created, to my mind. Also, the fist 6 episodes of series 6.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:48 am

And yet perversely to the masses DS9 is often considered the least interesting.

The Crossroads Motel in Space.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by sheringham on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:53 am

Lee Mansfield wrote:And yet perversely to the masses DS9 is often considered the least interesting.

The Crossroads Motel in Space.

Pah! The masses - what do I care of them? They are utterly wet and weeds as eny fule kno and I diskard them.

Tha masses like the X factor. Need I say more? DS 9 rules. Very Happy
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Colin Hicks on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:55 am

I always found DS9 to be a bit of a poor man's Babylon 5 - bloody good by Trek standards, but still too obviously flailing for a sense of direction, whereas B5 had that nailed from word one. Conversely, I've got a soft spot for TNG -it might have been a bit same-y, but it was the first one of a whole generation (no pun intended) of genre shows where the quality was nailed to a pretty high standard every week, and arguably the first one to sell itself successfully outside of the 'geek' audience.

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Re: All things Trek

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:56 am

The masses like the X factor. Need I say more? DS 9 rules. Very Happy

....The X Factor...AND Doctor Who.... Wink
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Re: All things Trek

Post by sheringham on Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:01 am

They can't always be wrong, can they? Anyway, lots of people who like Dr Who like DS 9. so it's obviously the other masses, the ones who like X factor, who don't like DS9.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Zoltar on Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:29 pm

Doc Filth wrote:I always found DS9 to be a bit of a poor man's Babylon 5 - bloody good by Trek standards, but still too obviously flailing for a sense of direction, whereas B5 had that nailed from word one.
It helped Babylon 5 was its own entity and not trying to find its own voice within a "franchise".

I'd rate my favorite series as TOS and DS9. I did enjoy TNG a lot when it first aired but less so now.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Sid Seadevil on Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:53 pm

Zoltar wrote:It helped Babylon 5 was its own entity and not trying to find its own voice within a "franchise".

I'd rate my favorite series as TOS and DS9. I did enjoy TNG a lot when it first aired but less so now.
I find TNG close to unwatchable now. Slow, ponderous, full of a dire sense of its own self importance - It's almost become the series equivalent of ST:TMP.

Except ST:TNG had Robert Wise.
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Frank on Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:45 am

Sid Seadevil wrote:
Zoltar wrote:It helped Babylon 5 was its own entity and not trying to find its own voice within a "franchise".

I'd rate my favorite series as TOS and DS9. I did enjoy TNG a lot when it first aired but less so now.
I find TNG close to unwatchable now. Slow, ponderous, full of a dire sense of its own self importance - It's almost become the series equivalent of ST:TMP.

Except ST:TMP had Robert Wise.
Unlike many Trek fans, I adore The Motion Picture. It has a truly epic feel to it, courtesy of Mr. Wise, and visually it's lavish. Yes, I know the story's not much cop but that film still has something magical about it despite it being rather pompous. And the Jerry Goldsmith score is to die for!
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Re: All things Trek

Post by sheringham on Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:04 am

Voyager has got up to 7 of 9 joining the crew. But I'm confused.....I have vivid memories of weird looking aliens crawling all over the ship. I thought they were species 8472. But in the episode we watched last night, they didn't do that. They were just in ships. Does the memory cheat?
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Re: All things Trek

Post by Patrick on Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:58 am

sheringham wrote:Voyager has got up to 7 of 9 joining the crew. But I'm confused.....I have vivid memories of weird looking aliens crawling all over the ship. I thought they were species 8472. But in the episode we watched last night, they didn't do that. They were just in ships. Does the memory cheat?

Keep watching, Sheringham. Species 8472 pops up several times between season 4 and season 6. And, yes, in at least one of them, there's a weird looking alien crawling outside the hull of Voyager. In those early stories where the Borg were fighting 8472, the creatures from 'fluidic space' only seemed to travel in ships.
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