Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

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Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:39 pm

Ladies & Gentlemen,
It gives me great pleasure to point out that the start of Series 7 of Doctor Who is upon us. And we have a Dalek story to kick things off. Shoot for eye-stalks, I say.

Now, we also have, layered into this, five "Pond Life" shorts, which are apparently setting us up for the series launch. Amy and Rory... separated? The Doctor kidnapped by Daleks?

This is your chance to post your thoughts on the entry episode for Series 7. Tell us everything you thought about the story, and most importantly, hit that rate it button.

This thread will remain locked until transmission of Episode 1 occurs in the UK. Which means our standard spoiler warning to North American viewers: posts in this thread may contain information about plot points, characters and quotes you may want to avoid if you don't want this episode spoiled for you. Cheers!

And welcome at long last a new series of Doctor Who!

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:15 pm

Well, c'mon everyone. Don't be shy. Tell us what you thought.
Very Happy

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:46 pm

I only gave it 4 out of 5 because I was bothered by the concept of the Daleks having a Parliament and a Prime Minister. This suggests free speech and free thinking. Since when did daleks have either. They are the ultimate fascists.
Somebody hit Rory with the clue stick. Its a Dalek, its saying "eggs...", what did he expect it to say, "eggs and bacon for breakfast please.' or something?
Spoiler:
Apart from that, it was a brilliant episode. I loved the way that Oswin made all the Daleks forget who The Doctor was, although it sort of telegraphed her final fate.
Also I don't think that she is the future companion. I think for the next four episodes The Doctor is going to be responsible for the death of daughters of the Oswin family where ever he goes. A friend who has been an extra on the series says that throughout the Christmas Special, The Doctor is doing his best to avoid Clara all episode. This ties in with this theory in that he does not want to be responsible for the untimely death of yet another Oswin girl.
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:28 am

A solid 4 from me. Exactly what Doctor Who should be: fun and exciting. Judging by the social media hype I'd say that DW is becoming even bigger still.
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Jennyjenkins on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:38 am

4 from me too - really sad for Oswin though Sad
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:09 am

Prime Ministers are generally considered to be first among equals, Cat.

Liked it. A 4 from me, because it was a Dalek story that didn't really feature the Daleks. I was a smidge disappointed in the writing
Spoiler:
really, Mr. Moffat? Can you make Amy any more self-centred? Can you make Rory any less able to stand up to her crap? Have these people not heard of talking? adoption? fostering? Relate?

but the performances - specifically Matt Smith and Arthur Darvill - more than made up for any shortcomings.

If Mr.Darvill doesn't end up with a lead role in something following his run as Rory, I will be disappointed. He reminds me very much of Martin Freeman.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Rich Flair on Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:12 am

Needed more Daleks. And more mad Daleks. Much better on the 2nd viewing.
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:15 am

I gave it a four, as well. Great fun to see Skaro again after all this time.

First off, I have to give a big round of applause to Jenna Louise-Coleman as Oswin, the souffle-making, Carmen-fixated human dalek. Obviously, when she becomes a companion at Christmas, she won't be playing Oswin, but she's certainly impressed me with her acting chops.

I do have to disagree with Dave about the treatment of Amy. She's always had a touch of selfishness about her, but in the context of a story where the nanocloud is converting her to a Dalek, having that streak pushed a bit more to the forefront works. Remember the line, "you subtract love and add anger." I think both Moffat's writing and Gillian's performance nicely underscored the way she was being affected.

I do have some advice for Rory, though. Mr. Williams-Pond, I highly recommend you run out and get yourself a copy of The Universal Guide To Dealing With Daleks. C'mon, did you really think they were just saying "eggs"?

Now, here's the big question. The episode starts with a voice over about the legend of the Doctor, and everyone thinking he's dead. Now we have all memory of the Doctor- Mr. Oncoming Storm- from the Dalek's memory. That's a pretty significant plot development, if you ask me, and I'm rather curious where this is going to go.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:41 am

Patrick wrote:
I do have to disagree with Dave about the treatment of Amy. She's always had a touch of selfishness about her, but in the context of a story where the nanocloud is converting her to a Dalek, having that streak pushed a bit more to the forefront works. Remember the line, "you subtract love and add anger." I think both Moffat's writing and Gillian's performance nicely underscored the way she was being affected.

You're suggesting Amy was being converted into a Dalek when she decided that the way to deal with infertility was divorce? Because that happened before the whole conversion thing, months before.

We're expected to believe this is the same Amy and Rory we saw last season - the Rory who waited for 2,000 years outside a box? The Amy who was prepared to kill herself and the Doctor because Rory had been killed in what might have been a dream? And her solution to a medical situation is to throw Rory out and divorce him? Really? Really? The Girl who Waited, the girl with the time travelling daughter and time lord for a son in law couldn't find a better solution than "Well, I might not be your ideal woman any more so I'm going to hurt you as much as I possibly can right now" ?

C'mon, Patrick. The emotional core of the Pond's story was contrived and out of character.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:23 am

I grant you, the reasons for why they were divorcing were a bit far fetched. And I grant you, the divorce plot-line preceded Amy's nanocloud experience. I was talking specifically about Amy's characterization through the bulk of this story, though.

My problem with the plot line had more to do with how Rory was being treated as a character. He seemed absolutely clueless as to how to respond to Amy. The divorce plot-line only makes sense if Amy had never told Rory that the reason she was sending him packing was because her self-image had been damaged by the knowledge that she can't have any more children. Do we know that she never told him before that moment in the episode?

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Zoltar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:35 am

It gets a 4 from me as well.

On the negative side, I agree with Dave's issue with Amy's characterization. I would've liked to seen more of "every Dalek ever", though the bit where the nuttiest of the bunch allowed for some classic Dalek encounters to be namechecked was fun.

On the plus side, great performances from the cast. Jenna won me over easily and I'm really looking forward to seeing her and Matt travel together. The Dalek puppets and zombies were put to good use. The opening scenes on Skaro looked great.

Doctor Who indeed. Interesting to see where that goes.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Rich Flair on Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:44 pm

Did she specifically state that she cannot biologically have children anymore? If not then it could be taken to mean that she won't have children because of what happened at Demon's Run ie she doesn't want another kidnapped child. Solved in episode 5 when the Doctor agrees not to visit the couple again, thus minimising the risks to a future child. Incidentally, where did the photo of Amy and child from last year's opener come from - have they explained that yet?
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Zoltar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:28 pm

It sounded like it was biological to me.

"Whatever they did to me at Demon's Run, I can't ever give you children."

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:32 pm

Rich Flair wrote:Did she specifically state that she cannot biologically have children anymore?


Yes. The actual line of dialogue was Amy's: "Whatever they did to me at Demon's Run, it means I'm incapable of having any more children."

Rich Flair wrote: Incidentally, where did the photo of Amy and child from last year's opener come from - have they explained that yet?

I had assumed that, since the photo was found in the room where the first incarnation of River Song lived (the orphanage room in Florida), it had been taken by Madam Kovarian in "A Good Man Goes To War," and given to her by the Silence.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Ginger Ninja on Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:42 pm

I found the whole episode Extremely enjoyable. Only gets a four cause it needed OLD daleks being more prominent. The survivors of the "Doctor Wars" should have been the actual ones. But apart from not enough oldies, pure brill!
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:32 pm

Patrick wrote:I grant you, the reasons for why they were divorcing were a bit far fetched. And I grant you, the divorce plot-line preceded Amy's nanocloud experience. I was talking specifically about Amy's characterization through the bulk of this story, though.

My problem with the plot line had more to do with how Rory was being treated as a character. He seemed absolutely clueless as to how to respond to Amy.

Wouldn't you be? Rory is far from perfect, but where Amy is concerned he's nothing but patient and supportive. This is the guy who Amy forced to play at being the Doctor as a kid. I'm fairly sure that the only person who could force Rory to do something he didn't want to do is Amy. Which is pretty much what we see. Rory says she threw him out, Amy doesn't contradict this but instead spins it into giving him up, as if throwing him out and divorcing him is somehow doing him a favour.

Let's assume for a moment that Amy believes she's doing Rory a huge favour by sparing him years of low level disappointment. It means she hasn't noticed that what Rory wants, what he's demonstrated over and over again what he wants, is Amy.

Amy, whatever her motives, is behaving badly. I don't really see a sensible alternative interpretation, especially since when Amy launches into her "I gave you up" rant, she shouts over Rory. What was Rory going to say? Look at the performance.

...actually, the storyline is saved by Karen and Arthur, who turn in some really good work to make the whole thing hang together. The episode is essentially a four hander (five if you count Nick Briggs) and yet still feels huge.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Zoltar on Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:30 pm

Dave Webb wrote:...actually, the storyline is saved by Karen and Arthur, who turn in some really good work to make the whole thing hang together. The episode is essentially a four hander (five if you count Nick Briggs) and yet still feels huge.
Agreed on the whole thing, but especially this bit. While I didn't care for Amy's actions, Karen gave a great performance.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Nick Barlow on Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:50 pm

I give it 3/5 - there's good stuff in there, but just felt a bit of a mess to me. Oswin was good, but didn't feel too much different from other Moffat female characters and I've given up on the idea of Rory and Amy having any sort of consistent characterisation.

Though I do hope that this iteration of the Daleks - Prime Ministers and all - is going to be seen again, because otherwise they've brought in a quality actor like Anamaria Marinca and given her a rather small role.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Kristen Stone on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:01 am

Late to the debate as usual, but that's me. Interesting that most of the comments so far are about the relationship between Amy and Rory. I felt sad that they appeared to be splitting up and wondered if I should have watched Pond Life. But let's face it, their relationship was never going to be easy or straightforward, and as far as I know, this is the first time there has been a 'couple' involved with Doctor Who. But that's all rather too grown up for me and possibly for the kids watching. Relationships are difficult enough to understand without throwing in time travel, strange births and dopplegangers made out of goo. And you wonder why their relationship is strained!
What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Dave Webb on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:47 am

Kristen Stone wrote:What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?

Nope, didn't spot it. In retrospect it was obvious, but for me only in retrospect.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Patrick on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:51 am

Dave Webb wrote:
Kristen Stone wrote:What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?

Nope, didn't spot it. In retrospect it was obvious, but for me only in retrospect.

I honestly didn't cotton onto the fact she was already a converted Dalek, either.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Jennyjenkins on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:58 am

Patrick wrote:
Dave Webb wrote:
Kristen Stone wrote:What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?

Nope, didn't spot it. In retrospect it was obvious, but for me only in retrospect.

I honestly didn't cotton onto the fact she was already a converted Dalek, either.

Ditto jocolor
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Zoltar on Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:43 am

Kristen Stone wrote:What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?
Not seeing it coming doesn't make you thick at all, they set it up really well. The Doctor's comments about her food situation did make me suspect it as a possibility, but only cos I thought it unlikely that she'd end up just another Roboman type and she had been on the planet unprotected for a year.

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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by barnaby morbius on Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:12 am

Patrick wrote:
Dave Webb wrote:
Kristen Stone wrote:What I want to know is, did anyone else twig that Oswin was really a Dalek, or was I the only one thick enough not to think of that?

Nope, didn't spot it. In retrospect it was obvious, but for me only in retrospect.

I honestly didn't cotton onto the fact she was already a converted Dalek, either.

i did a few minutes before, but then again, i am remarkably clever.

anyway i saw it a few weeks ago and thought it was fab-definitely one of the best Matt Smith episodes. dinosaur one looks a bit dogy though!
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Re: Rate "Asylum Of The Daleks"

Post by Kristen Stone on Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 am

Phew! Glad it wasn't only me. I should be thinking these things through but then - I never manage to work out 'who did it' in 'who dun its' either.
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