Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

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Rate: The Time Of The Doctor

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Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:16 am

The Matt Smith era draws to a close as the Doctor's journey brings him Trenzalore, and what is almost certainly a trap. Daleks, Cybermen, Weeping Angels and The Silence all seem to have gathered to witness, and perhaps play a role, in bringing down the Eleventh. But what is Trenzalore? And what does "Silence will fall" actually mean?

All will be revealed on Wednesday, December 25th. God rest ye, Merry Doctor, let no regeneration you dismay. This thread will remain locked until transmission of the story on Christmas Day, and the standard spoiler alert for folks outside the UK applies: if you want to remain truly unspoiled as to the details of the story, venturing in here until it airs on this side of the Atlantic should be at your own risk.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:02 am

I need to watch it again without relatives talking all the way through it, but that seemed like a total mess to me.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:33 pm

I need to watch it again, too. I got back home last night in time to watch the second transmission of the episode, and perhaps it was the fatigue of the day, but I also found this a bit confusing, and the regeneration moment a bit underwhelming. So I'm reserving judgment until I can watch it in a better frame of mind.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:39 pm

I think that had to be the single most miserably depressing episode of Doctor Who in its entire 50 year history. Bleak and unrelentlessly dark. And I loved every minute of it. Just what jolly Doctor#13 (as we must now call him) needed for a send off. So many lose ends tied up.

Can't wait now for Capaldi's debut as #14's. Is it really nine months to September '14. Surely, they have to have an Easter Special now, as there is a difference between keeping the viewers hungry and starving them to death.
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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:22 am

Yet another damp squib Christmas Special. The synopsis made sense, but translated onto screen poorly. The regeneration was amongst the very worst ever, and I really struggled to hear what Capaldi was saying. Unless Moffat changes his writing style, I fear for the new First Doctor.

And could we please have a companion who actually travels with him, rather than phoning up every so often and asking for a favour.

This review is pretty spot on in my opinion.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:52 am

The" co="Ordinator wrote:And could we please have a companion who actually travels with him, rather than phoning up every so often and asking for a favour.
This, definitely. Though maybe the new Doctor's inability to fly the TARDIS might give us this.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:38 am

Keith Topping, over at his blog, made an interesting point: you have to view Name Of The Doctor, Day Of The Doctor and Time Of The Doctor as a sort of related trilogy of stories. What Moffat decided he had to do, for the longevity of the show, was wrap up the time war, solve the 12-regeneration limit issue, and give the Doctor a new motivation. And in the context of all that, he also had to wrap up Matt Smith's tenure by taking us full circle.

Hats off to the Moff for his ambition. I'm not completely certain Time Of The Doctor succeeded as well as the other two, but I feel compelled to give Moffat credit for the attempt.

As for companions not travelling full time with the Doctor, I'm not overly bothered by that. Rose Tyler had Jackie as a reason to keep coming back to Earth. Martha and Donna had families that served as anchors to keep the TARDIS returning here. Even in the classic years, you had companions with jobs and lives that made it necessary for the occasional Earth pit-stop. Moffat just tweaked that a bit with the Ponds and Clara.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:50 pm

Our old friend Frank is unimpressed.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:05 pm

Upon reflection, I gave this a 3. There have definitely been better regeneration stories. But this one had an awful lot to live up to. I don't think it succeeded as well as it could have (hence the score), but I also don't think its in a league like Victory Of The Daleks.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Dave Webb on Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:52 pm

I quite liked it.

I agree with Frank's review, for the most part, but the thing is...I was entertained for an hour and it was only later when I had to explain parts of it to some Not We (who were dragooned into watching the show because Mine Host wanted to watch it) that I became aware of how much was completely incomprehensible to the casual viewer.

Nevertheless, the thing I liked least about the Christmas Special was the complete rubbish spouted by the fans following the broadcast. I plan to avoid fan discussion entirely, hereafter.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:56 pm

So what we're saying is that some of us enjoyed it, and others didn't. In other words, a standard Wednesday in Doctor Who fandom.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:38 am

Patrick wrote:What Moffat decided he had to do, for the longevity of the show, was wrap up the time war, solve the 12-regeneration limit issue, and give the Doctor a new motivation.
This is my problem with Moffat, though - why did he decide that all those things need to be addressed? Why did the time war need 'wrapping up' when it wasn't causing any problems for the series? RTD pointed out that it'd be very easy to resolve the regeneration limit issue ('finding the Crystal of Zog' or whatever) and there's no real dramatic benefit by announcing the Doctor was on his final life half an hour before it was solved, so why do it that way? And what was wrong with the Doctor's old motivation that he needed a new one? (If indeed, he had an overall motivation)

The problem with Moffat's era, I've found, is that it spends a lot of time solving problems that no one thought were problems until Moffat introduced them, and these are just the latest examples - no one really cared about the Doctor being too famous in-universe (except possible Douglas Adams when he proposed a story where the Doctor retired) and his level of fame was usually whatever was necessary for the plot, not the driving force behind it.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:25 am

Nick Barlow wrote:
This is my problem with Moffat, though - why did he decide that all those things need to be addressed?

Because they were there, and he's the showrunner, and while they didn't "need" to be addressed it was a direction he wanted to take?
As for solving problems that no one thought were problems until they were introduced...isn't that the point of drama? To create a situation and then resolve it?

This is one of those times when I hate forums, because this is definitely an "over a couple of beers" question: what, if you were in his shoes, would you have done?

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:02 am

Dave Webb wrote:
Nick Barlow wrote:
This is my problem with Moffat, though - why did he decide that all those things need to be addressed?

Because they were there, and he's the showrunner, and while they didn't "need" to be addressed it was a direction he wanted to take?
As for solving problems that no one thought were problems until they were introduced...isn't that the point of drama?  To create a situation and then resolve it?

This is one of those times when I hate forums, because this is definitely an "over a couple of beers" question: what, if you were in his shoes, would you have done?
Something completely different, obviously Smile It's a bit like the old response to 'how do I get where I want to go?' - 'well, I wouldn't start from here'.

I'm not trying to say that Moffat's style of storytelling or his vision of Who is somehow objectively wrong, just that it's subjectively not as appealing to me as RTD's was . For some people, of course, it works better for them than RTD's does, and that's fine but I'm hoping that the clearing of the decks approach Moffat took to his storylines in TTOTD was a sign that they're trying a new approach for the Capaldi era.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:06 am

Well, I'm certainly game to discuss all this over some beers. It seems to me that given the nature of the show, and how change is one of its only constants, you can only judge a creative decision like the one Moffat has just made in hindsight. This time next year, we'll have Series 8 and the 2014 Christmas Special as fodder for this conversation. Right now, we can only speculate about how well it will work.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:53 am

Nick Barlow wrote:
Something completely different, obviously :)It's a bit like the old response to 'how do I get where I want to go?' - 'well, I wouldn't start from here'.

I'm not trying to say that Moffat's style of storytelling or his vision of Who is somehow objectively wrong, just that it's subjectively not as appealing to me as RTD's was .

I found that bits of it were right up my alley, so to speak. And other bits were not. On balance it all worked for me but I've not looked too deeply into it all - I've been leaving it to better minds than mine (Frank, for example).

Nick Barlow wrote:I'm hoping that the clearing of the decks approach Moffat took to his storylines in TTOTD was a sign that they're trying a new approach for the Capaldi era.

Me too. I think the actor deserves it, and I think the show needs it. If Moffat can pull off a new direction without shedding large quantities of audience I will be impressed and delighted,

Patrick wrote:Well, I'm certainly game to discuss all this over some beers.

That is one of the great joys of being a fan, and I would love to kill an afternoon and evening creating an alternative 50th anniversary season, or working with what RTD left to produce an alternative Moffat era. Or, failing that,just drinking beer and talking bollocks. I do those things so well, d'you see.  Very Happy 

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:26 pm

Dave Webb wrote:
Patrick wrote:Well, I'm certainly game to discuss all this over some beers.

That is one of the great joys of being a fan, and I would love to kill an afternoon and evening creating an alternative 50th anniversary season, or working with what RTD left to produce an alternative Moffat era.  Or, failing that,just drinking beer and talking bollocks.  I do those things so well, d'you see.   Very Happy 

I may just take you up on that, Dave. I'm planning a bit of pilgrimage to the land of Bond and Blue Police Boxes for this coming Spring.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by gabbie on Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:47 pm

I found Time of the Doctor a sad but triumphant ending to the Eleventh Doctor's tenure. I am a bit surprised at the "kerfuffle" the numbering thing has caused for some fans. I knew after I saw "Stolen Earth/Journey's End", that the ship had sailed and needed to be explained at some point.  There are some things that don't need to be but..ah..the rules. It was a regeneration. The fact that Peter Capaldi''s Doctor is really One doesn't bother me either. I really hated to see Matt Smith go but am excited to see what Peter Capaldi's Doctor will be like. Exciting times ahead.

As for the story itself it was very watchable and enjoyable, far better than The Doctor, The Widow and the Wardrobe which I found to be the weakest Christmas story in the new series.  I love the dynamic between Eleven and Clara.  Weaknesses in the story..the fact that the Doctor was there 100's of years..Daleks aren't afraid of anything, they attacked Gallifrey but obviously that would have shortened the episode. I still think the Papal Mainframe should have been linked to CAL and that really would have tied up the story from Silence in the Library to Time of the Doctor..but Moffat chose otherwise.  Still the episode gets a Woot Woot from me.

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Re: Rate "The Time Of The Doctor"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:54 pm

Patrick wrote:Keith Topping, over at his blog, made an interesting point: you have to view Name Of The Doctor, Day Of The Doctor and Time Of The Doctor as a sort of related trilogy of stories. .
I have been mentally refering to these three stories as "Trilogy of the Doctor" since I saw Name of the Doctor back in the Summer.
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