End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

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End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Nick Barlow on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:27 am

Right, here's a thought I've had since seeing the trailer on Sunday - what if the Master's not really in The End Of Time?

'Wait,' I hear you say, 'How can you be so silly? We all saw John Simm in the trailer saying "I am the Master" so how could you be so foolish?'

Well, maybe I am being foolish, but what if the Master in TEOT isn't the real one, but some figment of the Doctor's imagination, perhaps his darker side manifesting itself in the only way he can picture it (like the Valeyard but not as rubbish). It's not a new idea - Barry Letts originally wanted Pertwee's final story to be The Final Game, which would have featured the idea that the two were different aspects that would have to come together before regenerating into a new form - so what if RTD is playing on the same idea? Might he still be leaving the question of what happened to the real Master and the woman with the ring for Moffat, while still getting to use John Simm again?

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:35 am

Personally speaking, I doubt it very much Councillor. That's not to say you won't be proven right of course!

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by konstantin on Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:58 am

could also be something else entirely - masquerading as the master --
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Exterminieren on Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:44 pm

Hmm... what do we reckon about that shot of the Master turning briefly skeletal in the trailer?
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:52 am

He's been exterminated by a dalek? Drinkin Dalek Laughing

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Lucy McGough on Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:01 am

That's what I thought.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:10 pm

At the TIMELESS meeting tonight, one of my mates, Tim Farr, pointed out the following:

  • RTD has been at great pains to point out that the title is six words long.
  • What was the last time six words played an important part in a Doctor Who story.
  • Change the gender of the pronoun in those six words and apply them to The Doctor.

Worked out what the title is yet?
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Exterminieren on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:26 pm

The Browncoat Cat wrote:At the TIMELESS meeting tonight, one of my mates, Tim Farr, pointed out the following:

  • RTD has been at great pains to point out that the title is six words long.
  • What was the last time six words played an important part in a Doctor Who story.
  • Change the gender of the pronoun in those six words and apply them to The Doctor.

Worked out what the title is yet?
Would have been nice.
Unfortunately the Beeb confirmed today that the title for the first episode is... The End of Time Part One. Which is a bit of a letdown.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:41 pm

Exterminieren wrote:
Would have been nice.
Unfortunately the Beeb confirmed today that the title for the first episode is... The End of Time Part One. Which is a bit of a letdown.
Isn't it just. But on the plus side, at least just once, we will see a proper "Part 1" and "Part 2" slide with the current title sequence.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:09 am

Nicked from elsewhere, but this is pretty cool! Very Happy


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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:32 am

Just a quick reminder of the first bit of filming that took place for "The End of Time".


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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:33 am

The Children In Need preview is schduled between 8.00 and 8.30pm this evening.

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by konstantin on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:53 am

found this add in the back of a journal I got in today...




guess they got the date wrong
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by konstantin on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:42 pm

Well, the CIN clip was pretty good -- _very_ promising.


Looking forward to the whole thing.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Zoltar on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:53 pm

I enjoyed it too. It was a good teaser.

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:49 am

I thought it was.......................underwhelming to be honest. And Mrs C=O found the Queen Bess gag vulgar in the extreme. affraid

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Lucy McGough on Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:29 am

The Co=Ordinator wrote:I thought it was.......................underwhelming to be honest. And Mrs C=O found the Queen Bess gag vulgar in the extreme. affraid
I thought it was very atmospheric. You don't want a teaser trailer to give anything away, do you?

I liked the Queen Bess gag. Mind you, that joke in Love and Monsters set the bar for bad jokes in Doctor Who extremely high. I still haven't forgiven RTD for it.

(If you think that's daft, my mum still hasn't forgiven Henry VIII for the dissolution of the monasteries.)
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Patrick on Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:12 pm

I've been giving Nick's speculation some thought. It's an intriguing idea that rather than actually seeing the real Master, we get some Valeyard-esque version of the Doctor represented as the Master.

But I have to say I don't see it happening that way for this reason: if the final story of this Doctor involves the Master presented in the way Nick suggests, it would mean RTD would have lost the only opportunity he'll ever get to explain the significance of that hand with the ring we saw at the end of Last of the Time Lords. What did it mean? Is it a clue to how the Master could obtain... "a new body, at last." And whose hand was it we saw with that ring?

I can't bring myself to believe RTD would foreclose any opportunity to pick up and expand on that dangling thread before he goes. Couple that with what we saw in the CiN special, and I have to believe we're getting the real deal with the Master, rather than a Master-like aspect of the Doctor.

But I'm fully prepared to be wrong about that.

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:55 am

The End of Time - Part One

It's the Tenth Doctor's final journey – but his psychotic nemesis the Master has been reborn, on Christmas Eve. With both determined to cheat death, the battle ranges from the wastelands of London to the mysterious Immortality Gate, while the alien Ood warn of an even greater danger approaching, as a terrible shadow falls across the entire Universe.

The End of Time - Part Two

The Doctor faces the end of his life as the Master's plans hurtle out of control. With the sound of drums growing louder, and an ancient trap closing around the Earth, the Doctor and Wilf must fight alone. But sacrifices must be made, and the deadly prophecy warns: "He will knock four times."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/proginfo/tv/2009/wk51/bbc_one.shtml#bbc_one_doctorwho

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Lee Carey on Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:41 am

Has anyone else notice the symmetry between Bad Wolf and The End of Time? In the former, a civilisation was held back by a hundred years, while in the later a civilisation has developed way to quickly within a hundred years. Coincidence?

Other than that, the clip did what it was supposed to, which is wet the appetite for the forthcoming special without giving away anything.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by konstantin on Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:10 am

the 100 yrs is just probably an easy round figure - something without too much significance -- would be much more cumbersome if it was 362 yrs -- and the speculation over what that meant
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Lee Carey on Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:08 am

I meant it more for the symmetry of holding back in one case, and advancing in the other, although Davies isn't the sort of writer to let coincidence go, and I'd imagine that even the time passed is supposed to be reflective.
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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Patrick on Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:21 am

Lee Carey wrote:I meant it more for the symmetry of holding back in one case, and advancing in the other, although Davies isn't the sort of writer to let coincidence go, and I'd imagine that even the time passed is supposed to be reflective.

You make an interesting point, Lee. In the case of Bad Wolf/retardation of forward development of a civilization, it was the Daleks that were at fault. In the case of End of Time/quickening of forward development of a civilization (Ood)... Time Lords at fault?

Just a provocative thought.

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:39 am

From the BBFC Website.


DOCTOR WHO - CONFIDENTIAL - LORDS AND MASTERS Video Feature
Classified 27 November, 2009 . Run Time 57m 16s

Consumer Advice: Contains mild scary moments
This work was passed with no cuts made.
The BBFC has placed this work in the DOCUMENTARY genre(s). The main spoken language in this work is English.
Directed by Not known
The cast for this work includes: David Tennant.
When submitted to the BBFC the work had a running time of 57m 16s.
This work was submitted to the BBFC by 2 entertain Video Ltd. .



A small clue, perchance, as to who may be returning?

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Re: End of Time speculation (possible spoilers)

Post by Patrick on Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:56 am

Has a transmission date for End of Time Part 2 been scheduled yet?

I'm thinking of making an announcement reminding everyone that our Chat room is open, and OW members can certainly gather to watch the final two episodes of Tenant's tenure together.

End of Time, Part 1
[UK] Friday, 25th December
[US] Saturday, 26th December

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