Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:39 pm

Zoltar wrote:But yes, the Borg are SF zombies, meant to be a persistent attacking force that you can't reason with which intends to consume you. If "Hugh" was bad for the Borg, I think Seven was worse. She was not only meant to be sympathetic, but she literally used Borg tech for good.
Seven was the more or less the final nail in the Borg's coffin as a viable threat, as you so rightly say. She represents the ultimate demystification of them that began with "Hugh".

Zoltar wrote:Happens a lot with those all-powerful enemies that prove popular. Case in point from DC comics, for example, Darkseid's Omega Effect or Doomsday. Red Hulk was a recent example at Marvel, though they've made an effort to explain his depowering.
Agreed. Indeed, the Borg (at least as originally presented) are pretty much Trek's version of Galactus. Unstoppable, can't be reasoned with, totally unswerving from their designated purpose.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:17 pm

I think the final final nail in the Borg's coffin was the introduction of the Queen. It had the Davros effect, Borg episodes stopped being about the Borg and started being about their Queen. It also gave the Borg a voice in a massively inferior way than Picard's assimilation did. They should probably have created a semi-regular character who eventually gets assimilated and becomes the voice of the Borg. They could have used Guinan.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Nick Barlow on Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:26 pm

I think one of the problems with Seven of Nine was that they decided that she shouldn't just be any random borg, but some very special snowflake. So rather than have her as just some person who was assimilated when they conquered somewhere, she was the daughter of researchers with important information about the Borg, then she had the whole 'access to Unimatrix Zero' thing, then she was so special that the Queen (and Johnstone's right, that was another mistake) would do anything to reassimilate her...

What might have been interesting would have been her being just some normal person - perhaps even not human, in as much as in Star Trek terms that normally means just having a funny nose or ears - and then that individual reasserting itself over time, perhaps at the cost of knowing all that handy Borg science for invoking deus ex machinas when Harry had run out of ways to do it with the deflector shield.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:49 am

Agreed. It would have been infinitely more interesting for her to have been just a simple, ordinary person of any race. But as you so rightly point out; if they had taken that route with Seven they they would have been forced to come up with, you know, actual clever ways to get the characters out of dangerous situations.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Patrick on Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:44 am

I think the decisions about 7-of-9's character, and what she had access to as a member of the Borg, came down later. Ultimately, they wanted someone to replace the character of Kes, and they wanted that someone to be Jeri Ryan.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:22 am

Particularly since I believe she was one of the producers girlfriend at the time. Not that I'm complaining; she was very easy on the eyes and yes, she actually could act to boot.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Patrick on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:33 am

Sid Seadevil wrote:Particularly since I believe she was one of the producers girlfriend at the time. Not that I'm complaining; she was very easy on the eyes and yes, she actually could act to boot.

IIRC, at the time she was cast, she was married to a politician from Chicago. The marriage ended in divorce, and it was some of the revelations of that divorce that came out in court that de-railed her husband's attempt to run for a US Senate Seat that was ultimately won by Obama.

That's not to say she wasn't having an affair with one of Voyager's producers. Quite possible, in fact.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Zoltar on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:42 am

Patrick wrote:I think the decisions about 7-of-9's character, and what she had access to as a member of the Borg, came down later. Ultimately, they wanted someone to replace the character of Kes, and they wanted that someone to be Jeri Ryan.
Indeed. Her function on the ship was clearly to be Voyager's Spock or Data though, the super-intelligent outsider who allows the writers to examine humanity. Of course, this is Spock or Data with Borg tech, so she became something of a magic wand in terms of problem-solving. It's not like it never happened with Spock either, he sometimes manifested new Vulcan abilities when the plot needed them.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:45 am

Uber interesting. Both her and hubby playing away from home...allegedly.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:50 pm

Due to being at home with naff all to do I seem to have found myself at the end of series 7 of DS9, with only the big finale to go.

The 8 episodes of the finale so far have been fantastic. I was starting to get bored at the start of the seventh series, it felt like the series was re-treading ground from series 1 and 2, especially with the shape shifter episodes.

Yet again the light-hearted ones were the best, with Badda-Bing Badda-Bang being the best. Vic Fontane truly was an inspired character. It almost seemed daft making Ezri a as Vic seemed to do a better job. 90 minutes for the series to tie up a hell of a lot of loose ends.

Most of all I hope that Dukat taken on Cardassian form again. At the end he should die as a Cardassian, not a Bajoran. That's if he dies at all. This series has been so much like Blake's 7 throughout that it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't make an appearance at all, just like Servelan.

Next up: Either Babylon 5, The Wire or The X Files. Hmmm...

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:30 am

Go for The Wire Johnstone. Take a break from the fantasy/Sci-Fi and get down with the Grim and Gritty!

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:23 am

Someone's suggested 24 to me. Any opinions on that?

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:27 am

Go for it. Even at its least inspired, 24 is a totally bonkers roller-coaster ride.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:51 am

I'll give it a shot. I will get to The Wire eventually, there's just a huge list of things that I'd rather watch first. And I do agree that after DS9 I need a sci-fi break. 24 sounds like it's worth the time of day though so I'll give it a try.

In the meantime, the last episode of DS9 was interesting to say the least. Damar should have had more of a death rather than just stupidly running out and getting himself killed. Bashir and Garak's final scene was beautiful. Garak, finally having what he's wanted all the way through, realizes that it wasn't worth it in the end.

Bashir is the character I feel sorriest for. He loses both Miles and Garak, two people that have been his best friends on DS9. Although Ezri does a damn good job of making up for it.

Not moved at all by Worf's departure and it seemed that none of the crew were either, considering that Ezri waving from a balcony was the best goodbye they could muster.

Odo's departure was tragic but very predictable. It's always been made clear that he'd return home if his people weren't a bunch of empire-ruling psychopaths. Interestingly, the Dominion still exists in the Gamma Quadrant as it was only their army on Cardassia that was defeated. In series 6 we knew that they were cloning new troops in the Alpha Quadrant and one can assume that it was they who surrendered on Cardassia. The dominion isn't beaten, just simply shoved back to their side of the wormhole.

Dukat's death was a bit rushed and seemed tacked on to the end. It's a shame that he only got a scene back in Cardassian form. It'd have been criminal to let him die a Bajoran when that look simply took away his evilness. I'd love to know how Sisco suddenly decided to run for the fire caves suddenly, but there'll never be an answer. Weyoun's death was also rushed, Garak suddenly flicking into war-crime mode for a moment wasn't exactly out of character but it could have been handled a tad better. All deaths seemed a bit rushed really, considering that these characters have been villains all the way through or certainly for a good proportion of the series.

Keiko had a mercifully short role in the finale. A total bitch on her first appearance and just about the only character that didn't develop at all. How Miles didn't brutally murder her at some point I'll never know. Just the irritating "Mooooiiiiles" that she starts every complaining sentence with would be enough to drive anyone over the edge. Interesting how the series only letdowns are carryovers from The Next Generation.

The lack of Rom and Leeta in the finale was a shame. Both characters did have their stories tied up in the previous episode but an appearance would have been nice. As would a few clips of Jadzia in the ending montage, she was a main character for 6 of the 7 series after all...

So overall it was good, which is an accurate description for the entire series. There were moments of sheer amazement, such as the series 5 cliffhanger. However there were some moments of pure tedium, usually involving boring Klingons. The characters were engaging and for the most part it was well written. There were a few loose-ends that were left untied but anything of importance seems to have been cleared up. Overall the series gets an 7/10. I daresay that'd be a considerably higher mark if there were two things absent from it: Klingons and Keiko.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:52 am

I think that's a very fair overall assessment, Youngster. The Finale suffered from the usual Trek problem of not enough forward planning, leading to many character arcs/plot threads being hurriedly tied up in a less than satisfactory way.

Although having said that, it was arguably the most emotional end to a Trek series - and undoubtedly a quadzillion times better planned and executed than Voyager's dreadful finale.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:40 am

Endgame was awful. Brilliant concept but they blew it. What You Leave Behind was superior in just about every way possible.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:43 am

Absolutely so. "Endgame" should be a standard teaching aid in how not to wrap up a long running series.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Dingdongalistic on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:54 am

Johnstone McGuckian wrote:Endgame was awful. Brilliant concept but they blew it. What You Leave Behind was superior in just about every way possible.

I'm not sure Endgame was a brilliant concept. The first way Voyager got home strikes me as a lot more interesting than the second way.


Last edited by Dingdongalistic on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Spelling "home" as "him")

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:56 am

Blake's 7 being 'How to wrap up a series' Very Happy

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:59 am

Dingdongalistic wrote:
Johnstone McGuckian wrote:Endgame was awful. Brilliant concept but they blew it. What You Leave Behind was superior in just about every way possible.

I'm not sure Endgame was a brilliant concept. The first way Voyager got him strikes me as a lot more interesting than the second way.
Fair point. But they were in a situation where it had to end then and not 20+ years later. What Janeway did was in character, just very poorly executed.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:23 am

Johnstone McGuckian wrote:Blake's 7 being 'How to wrap up a series' Very Happy
Oh yes indeedy.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Nick Barlow on Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:36 am

Johnstone McGuckian wrote:Blake's 7 being 'How to wrap up a series' Very Happy
Surely it's more 'how to end a season on a cliffhanger, then discover it's the end of the series'? Smile

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Rich Flair on Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:07 am

They actually ended Blake's 7 at the end of series 3. It wasn't renewed until half way through the broadcast, when BBC managing director Billy Cotton, who was enjoying Terminal so much, rang up and ordered that the announcer at the end say that it's returning next year. Much to the surprise of the production team!

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:01 pm

One of my favorite stories that is. I'm so glad that we did get a fourth series.

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

Post by Johnstone McGuckian on Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:49 am

Just Blogged my review of Meglos.

I've also made a few posts about The Wire as my opinion has changed massively since episode 1. Brilliant stuff Very Happy

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Re: Johnstone's Epic Quest to Watch Stuff That was on the Telly Box A Long Time Ago!

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