Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Lee Carey on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:14 am

Doc Filth wrote:They're all really nice. Is that new Dave Gibbons artwork?
Quite likely, he's been responsible for some design work on the film, and I hope he makes a pretty packet off it.

Having glanced at the massive original Alan Moore scripts, he deserves it. Smile
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Colin Hicks on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:15 am

Lee Carey wrote:
Doc Filth wrote:They're all really nice. Is that new Dave Gibbons artwork?
Quite likely, he's been responsible for some design work on the film, and I hope he makes a pretty packet off it.

Having glanced at the massive original Alan Moore scripts, he deserves it. Smile

Quite so. I think this might be the Alan Moore adaptation that Moore eventually regrets not being involved with.

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:17 am

Lee Carey wrote:Quite likely, he's been responsible for some design work on the film, and I hope he makes a pretty packet off it.

Having glanced at the massive original Alan Moore scripts, he deserves it. Smile
I believe he and, I think it was John Higgins, created an entirely new storyboard/comic to illustrate Snyder's new end sequence to the film at the director's request. Dave really has had an almost unimaginable amount of creative input in this project.

All credit to Snyder for that.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:19 am

Doc Filth wrote:Quite so. I think this might be the Alan Moore adaptation that Moore eventually regrets not being involved with.
I suspect you're right. Although I doubt we'll ever see Moore publicly admit that.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by 72lf on Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:33 am

Sid Seadevil wrote:
Doc Filth wrote:Quite so. I think this might be the Alan Moore adaptation that Moore eventually regrets not being involved with.
I suspect you're right. Although I doubt we'll ever see Moore publicly admit that.
I dont think Alan will car eeither way.
He dislikes the machinery of Filmmaking and the suits behind them which is fair enough.
To each their own. My best mate is a film maker and detests having to deal with the money men or having to waste his time explaining tech or script stuff to people who are only interested in numbers...
However in terms of numbers, the budget is estimated to be about 80 mill dollars......the selling point to the general audience is in essence a superhero movie released in March....ie a low point in the release schedule, hoping to get a market before the 2009 summer season kicks off in May.
The film has no stars as such, no name draw( much like 300 at the time but that did well- but a LOT of women went to see muscled men in leather shorts....well, my then GF did anyway and all her friends..)
This is likely to be R rated or possibly PG-13, the vietnamese pregnant murder scene is still in it at the time of writing as is teh comedian raping Sally Jupiter.... even the suggestion of this would likely get a R rating.
In releasing March they will hopefull get a market and profit window that Daredevil and Ghost rider got.........they were low to mediocre movies but were very profitable, moreso that they deserved but thats another argument.
Watchmen, will NOT be mediocre, it is likely to be the citizen Kane of superhero movies.....unless the suits panic at the last moment and recut it to get the mcDonalds/ Burger King tie in market.
Hopefully Snyder will keep his film the way the intended.
However , the likelyhood is a R rating which will hunder the profit demographic.
Fanboys like us will see Kevin Smyth movies but that doesnt amount to a lot of green.
Warner Bros seem to have a smart grip on the marketing of this movie. much like Dark Knight and Harry Potter, which indicates that they actually understand whatthey are trying to sell and who will be most likely to see it.
If they can get that all important Dark knight PG 13 rating, hopefully they can make its budget /prints and marketing costs back and go into profit overseas....
Realistic figure- if it does 80mil Ill be expecting that, it would be on par with other Snyder flicks......average box office( now 300 withstanding was profitable only in a cost to gross margin) it was not a Big hit in terms of say an Apatow flick.....But
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Lee Carey on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:07 am

A very good post, 72lf, but I'd also add that I think the WB execs expect this to do better on DVD than at the cinema, and that's where they're expecting to recoup costs. As long as it's a critical and small scale success, then I think they'll be happy, and for this reason, I think they're likelier to stick with an R rating in the states.

Unless, as you say, one of them panics at the last minute and attempts to sell it to the Burger King crowd.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Nick Barlow on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:21 am

I would imagine that they're hoping for it to break out of the mould of 'superhero movie' and become a mainstream hit. It's the same way that if you'd ask people in 2000 if they'd wanted to see a film about wizards fighting orcs, they'd likely have said no, but everyone wanted to see the Lord Of The Rings films once they got great reviews. It's a gamble, but if it is a good film, then it could be huge - if it's not, then as Lee says, there'll be enough demand for the various DVD editions (including Tales Of The Black Freighter and a fictional documentary that covers a lot of the background) for it to recoup its costs.

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:31 am

Nick Barlow wrote:I would imagine that they're hoping for it to break out of the mould of 'superhero movie' and become a mainstream hit. It's the same way that if you'd ask people in 2000 if they'd wanted to see a film about wizards fighting orcs, they'd likely have said no, but everyone wanted to see the Lord Of The Rings films once they got great reviews. It's a gamble, but if it is a good film, then it could be huge - if it's not, then as Lee says, there'll be enough demand for the various DVD editions (including Tales Of The Black Freighter and a fictional documentary that covers a lot of the background) for it to recoup its costs.
I agree with both you and Lee on this. They're clealy hoping the film with have the same genre-breaking appeal as the original comic series/Graphic Novel. And handled correctly, as they seem to be doing at the moment, there's absolutely no reason it shouldn't have - providing Snyder actually ultimately delivers the promised goods.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Graymalkin on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:50 am

Despite the fact that the trailers look great, I'm fighting against getting too excited. I did that more and more with every new The Lord of the Rings trailer, and I'm not setting myself up for another fall like that again...

I'll deffo be watching it, though...
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Colin Hicks on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:51 am

Graymalkin wrote:Despite the fact that the trailers look great, I'm fighting against getting too excited. I did that more and more with every new The Lord of the Rings trailer, and I'm not setting myself up for another fall like that again...

I'll deffo be watching it, though...

Should I ask "What fall?" regarding the LotR trailers? I loved the movies...

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:53 am

Graymalkin wrote:Despite the fact that the trailers look great, I'm fighting against getting too excited. I did that more and more with every new The Lord of the Rings trailer, and I'm not setting myself up for another fall like that again...

I'll deffo be watching it, though...
That's a sensible approach to take if you found yourself bitten by the Rings uberhype, Gray.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by 72lf on Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:00 am

Graymalkin wrote:Despite the fact that the trailers look great, I'm fighting against getting too excited. I did that more and more with every new The Lord of the Rings trailer, and I'm not setting myself up for another fall like that again...

I'll deffo be watching it, though...

It does look rather good going by the trailers and faithful to the source material.
They have even paid close attention to the colours to be used and the lighting as Gibbons used a rather somber pallette of brown and green hues and alot of utised monochromatic filters....
Some of the CGI in the trailer looked a bit...well computer gamey but it was footege thats wont be actually properly finished untill next Feb Id say.
I hope they get a hard PG 13 rating , it means that here it will get a 15/16 cert and be more hard hitting.
If Dark knight can get away with it and I wont let my sone see that yet......its too dark and violent.
If it does more than $100 mill US, Ill be reet proper chuffed......
Im being realistic about it though......I like Snyder as a film maker and when Warners get it right, they REALLY get it right........But when they get it wrong.......we get the Avengers......
The posters really seem to indicate they understand the material.
High hopes.....
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by 72lf on Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:24 am

Ok, the new (third) trailer for Watchmen is online and all I can say is WOW!

Roll on March 2009.
The only thing is and Im sure this is just for the trailer, theres a lot of slo mo and hight speed cameras involved and some shots of Dr Manhattan dont convince as much as they should......particularly the close up dialogue shot.... Looks to much like Motion Cap....they should have done make up and some prosthetics rather that a complete Mo Cap technique...
You do you guys think?


Last edited by 72lf on Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Colin Hicks on Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:07 am

Love the new trailer! And Manhattan doesn't bother me at all Smile.

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Frank on Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:01 am

Doc Filth wrote:Love the new trailer! And Manhattan doesn't bother me at all Smile.

Very nice trailer and sweet posters. Thanks for flagging those up chaps. Blog has been updated accordingly. I'm getting very over-excited for this film now. The trailer does indicate an R rating so I think that debate has been settled.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Dave Webb on Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:20 am

There are rumours that the movie has alternate endings.
I wonder if there will be some work done with focus groups to see whether one ending is better than another.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:36 pm

Dave Webb wrote:There are rumours that the movie has alternate endings.
I wonder if there will be some work done with focus groups to see whether one ending is better than another.
I've heard the same. Interestingly, according to Synder himself...
Spoiler:
Non of the alternate ending involve the Squid
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by 72lf on Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:09 am

Sid Seadevil wrote:
Dave Webb wrote:There are rumours that the movie has alternate endings.
I wonder if there will be some work done with focus groups to see whether one ending is better than another.
I've heard the same. Interestingly, according to Synder himself...
Spoiler:
Non of the alternate ending involve the Squid

I read an interview stating that the Octopus ending was never shot and the one they did shoot scored far better....Even fanboys liked it.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:49 pm

Sid Seadevil wrote:I read an interview stating that the Octopus ending was never shot and the one they did shoot scored far better....Even fanboys liked it.
Which would make sense to me - Even back during reading it in it's original publication I was always convinced that the Squid was a very, very weak concept. Not fatally weak in terms of damaging the overall story - but certainly weak and hugely "Comic Booky", in terms of the villain's ultimate masterstroke.


Last edited by Sid Seadevil on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Lee Carey on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:51 pm

The problem is, the Squid ending is thematically important to the entire story, as well as plot orientated, as the discovery by the Comedian of the island it's being created on is what starts the story. According to one online spoiler source
Spoiler:
the new ending is based around Doctor Manhattan taking the blame for the destruction of New York, which then undermines the rest of the narrative. That means either the 'heroes' stop Ozimandias, or Doctor Manhattan is working with him... neither really working with what went before, story wise.

I've just gone from anticipation to dread again, unfortunately. Is this V for Vendetta all over again?
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Colin Hicks on Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:09 am

Lee Carey wrote:The problem is, the Squid ending is thematically important to the entire story, as well as plot orientated, as the discovery by the Comedian of the island it's being created on is what starts the story. According to one online spoiler source
Spoiler:
the new ending is based around Doctor Manhattan taking the blame for the destruction of New York, which then undermines the rest of the narrative. That means either the 'heroes' stop Ozimandias, or Doctor Manhattan is working with him... neither really working with what went before, story wise.

I've just gone from anticipation to dread again, unfortunately. Is this V for Vendetta all over again?

It doesn't necessarily have to mean that. It could be the case that
Spoiler:
Manhattan only becomes aware of the event after the fact (as with the Squid in the comic) and plays along with the lie (again, as in the comic). It's just a different lie that he plays along with - and why should it cause him any problem, if he's leaving for another universe anyway?

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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:41 am

[quote="Doc Filth]It doesn't necessarily have to mean that. It could be the case that
Spoiler:
Manhattan only becomes aware of the event after the fact (as with the Squid in the comic) and plays along with the lie (again, as in the comic). It's just a different lie that he plays along with - and why should it cause him any problem, if he's leaving for another universe anyway?
[/quote]This makes sense to me. Actually it's quite an elegant alternative.
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by 72lf on Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:02 pm

Well, personally I thought Vfo rVendatta was a rather good attempt to convey the tone and look of the comic while using some cinematic licence to make the ending a bit more emotionally satisfying .
Put it this way, if they used the novels ending then it would have been a rather interesting tv special adaptation.
So onto Watchmen....and the squid. Well, thing is in 1988, the squid was effective but Seeing what New York has been through, if they used a Squid now or giant monster, I think youd lose the empathy of the audience right there......
The use of the squid is not important, what is important is to use something, some thing so terrifying that in fear of worse , the city /nation and world comes together and renounces war and violence and hate etc.
After terrorists, nuclear war has raised its head again.
Now as part of the novel, Dr Manhatten would have known and the main point is that , and the Comedian states that explicitly in the novel, thats its not God, or religion or anything that makes the world s***, that kills kids , ( Im paraphrasing), its man and only man...and the only way man can listen is to confront him with his biggest fear.....
and Manhatten does nothing...hes off to a new universe,why would he care? about a planet that he no longer has any use for? he has outgrown it. Why should he try to protect humans when all they want to do is kill and maim each other over petty things?
Doesnt have to be a squid....
I can live with that......
What do you guys think?
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Frank on Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:56 pm

New Japanese trailer is now out on the interweb. Fabulous. Posted it to my blog so you don't have far to look!
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Re: Who'll Be Watching The Watchmen?

Post by Sid Seadevil on Sun Jan 11, 2009 6:00 pm

Frank wrote:New Japanese trailer is now out on the interweb. Fabulous. Posted it to my blog so you don't have far to look!
Wunderbar!

Let's hope this utterly ridiculous business with Fox doesn't hold up the release of this film.
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