Primeval - New Series

So I watched last night's episode of Primeval. This was the episode where Conner went off to a high school to fight these aligators and save two students, while Abby made secret plans to remove Rex and the mammoth from being 'put down.'

The first signs of a potential split between the two happened when Conner appeared to side with Alexander Siddig's decision to close the arc. Well, he didn't exactly side with Siddig's character, he just didn't say anything in opposition to it. A portent of things to come, I think.

Obviously, the whole reason for creating Siddig's character was give the team a new internal nemesis, and give Lister the chance to be seen as a reluctant good guy from now on. Premise-wise, this only works if Siddig's character gets revealed as being a truly-well crafted villain. So far, I'm not entirely convinced of this, but I'll let the rest of this series play out before I comment any further.

Which brings us to the school with the aligators. And here, a point Sid made a few posts ago shines in prominence. I get that this was supposed to be a school shown after normal school day hours. And, to increase the stakes, we have three students in the school apparently serving some form of detention. Fodder for the cannon, if you will.

I'm sorry, but even after hours, where was everyone else? Why no other students involved in study groups, rehersals, sports team practices? Where where the other teachers or coaches? Where were any administrative staff? The answer is they weren't there because that would have meant having to pay extras- and this was an obvious means of controlling the budget of the show.

It gives the impression that these anomolies are happening all around us, and no one is noticing them. Exotic, deadly creatures from various eras of the Earth's history are being given portals into modern day Earth, and no one besides our series regulars are aware of this.

Remember in the first series, when you had a plane load of people on the tarmac at an airport, and a T-Rex shows up? Remember the attack of wolly mammoth on the highway during a crowded rush hour? Yes, those scenes required loads of extras, but that was money well spent to create an atmosphere of realism to the presentation. By removing crowd scenes as a way to manage the budget, what you get is this minimalist presentation where it begins to look like the world is only occupied by our series regulars and those additional cast members any given story requires.

That's a big negative for me. One of the ways RTD held audiences of Doctor Who enthralled during his four years at the helm was that he completely embraced the idea of the whole world seeing alien invasions. He gave us clips of news channels covering Cybermen invasions, the Sycorax, disappearing hospitals, fat walking away as Adipose, ATMOS devices choking the air, and planets appearing in the sky. And to give those scenes the sense of realism they had, you saw loads of extras, with no speaking lines, helping to pull off the drama.

But the bigger issue I have with the series thus far comes down to this: we're now four years into the mystery of the anomolies. In four years, our team of regulars appear no closer to understanding them and tamping them down. They don't even have a name for them beyond the generic 'anomolies.' Isn't the whole point of what they're doing supposed to be around finding a way to prevent the anomolies? Stop them at their source?

The show has become a fight with the 'monster of the week,' and I fear there's only so long you can sustain that meme before it wears thin.

Well, that's my reaction at any rate.

And you raise as lot of very valid points that you're far from alone in vocalising. Yes, it's a fantasy/Sci-Fi series so we can allow it a little leeway. But it's starting to flout its own in-universe rules now, which is never a good thing.

Elliott H. Seadevil wrote:There was no action at all on last nights primeval

I think we must have been watching something different then!

I think that what we're seeing here, John is a subtle difference between what we as adults perceive as "action", and what a ten year old perceives as such. Obviously from Elliott's POV - the action offered up slightly missed the target. Which given that his age group is one of the shows prime demographics could be seen as a touch problematical.

Tonight's episode, (6/7) was one of the best of this series.. I can't wait to watch it again..

I'm reviving this review from Sid, given that UK audiences are a week forward of US audiences in viewing Series 4. Last night, we got episode 5 of 7. On this episode, Sid wrote:

Sid Seadevil wrote:Well, not particularly worse, but no improvement either, on last weeks offering. The story tension still suffering from the lack or tension and credibility generated by the ridiculous paucity of the general public where these creature manifestations are concerned. I mean seriously, Abby driving a large mobile holiday camper at breakneck speed through a holiday camp and along main country roads with a thirty-foot crocodile serpent creature clinging to the roof intent on eating her and nobody notices?

Not only did no one else notice, there was no one there to notice. I found that lack of detail rather jarring. All those other Winnebegos parked, obvious signs of other people in the form of the clothes lines Abby kept drivinig through, and yet, not another soul in sight.

Sid Seadevil wrote:Not to mention Abby and Conner being menaced by a pitchfork-wielding farm lady while armed with their Taser rifles - and doing exactly what she said when she tells them to "drop the weapons"?

I didn't find that as objectionable as you did. The pitchfork-wielding lady did manage to sneak up and, as they say, 'get the drop' on our intrepid pair. It's an open question: if they had tried to shoot, would one or both of them have been perforated by the pitchfork before a shot from the taser rifle found it's mark?

Sid Seadevil wrote:As for Conner - another nail in the coffin of his future was very possibly hammered into the lid tonight.

I'm curious about the name of this 'other project' he's being recruited for: Prospero. If I remember my Shakespeare, Prospero was very much a man who's time of magic and myth was being displaced by an age of reason and science. I wonder of the name of the project has a similar concept in mind.

I'll give last night's episode this, particularly as I've been a bit harsh on Series 4 up to this point: at least we had a decent b-plot going on with the acid-dumping story-line somehow effecting the anomaly. At least the series has begun to give us some logic to the anomalies themselves, something I've been waiting for a while now.

So, I'm going to be generous and give last night's episode a C+. It would have been a B- but for the bizarre ghost town RV park scene.

And that's a fair enough mark, Patrick. Sadly, unlike John, Elliott and I were less than impressed once again by this week's episode. The problem for me is that the new creative team definitely seem to have a very diffused grip on exactly where they want to take the series.

There was a lot of potential in last night's episode - sadly most of it was totally undermined by the blatant illogicalities of the plots actual execution. The creatures once again were very poorly integrated with the real life action for the most part and characters acted in the most senseless fashions just to ensure that character A would be in a position of dire danger at point B at just the right moment.

Frankly with only one episode remaining, I'll be majorly impressed if they manage to pull together the many and varied dangling plot-threads and tie at least some of them up satisfactorily in the little time that remains.

And for those who might not have heard yet the following information might well be of interest.

The fifth series of Primeval will start airing on pay TV channel Watch in May, UKTV have today confirmed, to be followed by its ITV1 launch early in 2012.

And for those of you interested in just who have been bankrolling the series since it's return, feast your eyes on the following.

Series 4 and Series 5 of Primeval were shot as one block of 13 episodes, following a deal between ITV and UKTV with producers Impossible Pictures. BBC America and Germany’s Pro7 were also co-production partners for the episodes.

Source

Series 5!
For God's sake no!
Please make it stop.
Somebody, please make it stop.

Breath deeply and try to relax, Cat. You can always keep telling yourself that it's a cheese induced nightmare.

Well, I have been impressed by every episode of this.. Ok, I know they have tried to save money by not having the extras, and all the rest.. I know that some people don't like the story line, the scripts, the acting, the effects, and everything under the sun that people will find wrong with any programme, no matter how good bad or indifferent.. I have simply loved all four series so far, and that is good enough for me.. And as for series 5? Bring it on... I also hope there will be more in the future..

Delighted you enjoyed the episode and the series, John. Unfortunately I managed to miss tonight's final episode. But I'll definitely catch up with it over the next couple of days.

Patrick, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the episode you watched earlier this week. as soon as you have a moment to spare, that is.

Sid,
We did not get an episode 6 tonight. The Top Gear marathon trumped the airing of the penultimate story of this series. I won't get to see that until next week- and since the new series of Being Human premieres on Feb. 19th, I'm guessing we're going to see both Episode 6 and 7 next Saturday.

Or, are you asking for my reaction to Episode 5?

Episode five methinks, old chap.

Sid Seadevil wrote:Episode five methinks, old chap.

Fair enough. Let's start with what I posted last Saturday, and you can ask me questions from there:

Patrick wrote:I'm reviving this review from Sid, given that UK audiences are a week forward of US audiences in viewing Series 4. Last night, we got episode 5 of 7. On this episode, Sid wrote:

Sid Seadevil wrote:Well, not particularly worse, but no improvement either, on last weeks offering. The story tension still suffering from the lack or tension and credibility generated by the ridiculous paucity of the general public where these creature manifestations are concerned. I mean seriously, Abby driving a large mobile holiday camper at breakneck speed through a holiday camp and along main country roads with a thirty-foot crocodile serpent creature clinging to the roof intent on eating her and nobody notices?

Not only did no one else notice, there was no one there to notice. I found that lack of detail rather jarring. All those other Winnebegos parked, obvious signs of other people in the form of the clothes lines Abby kept drivinig through, and yet, not another soul in sight.

Sid Seadevil wrote:Not to mention Abby and Conner being menaced by a pitchfork-wielding farm lady while armed with their Taser rifles - and doing exactly what she said when she tells them to "drop the weapons"?

I didn't find that as objectionable as you did. The pitchfork-wielding lady did manage to sneak up and, as they say, 'get the drop' on our intrepid pair. It's an open question: if they had tried to shoot, would one or both of them have been perforated by the pitchfork before a shot from the taser rifle found it's mark?

Sid Seadevil wrote:As for Conner - another nail in the coffin of his future was very possibly hammered into the lid tonight.

I'm curious about the name of this 'other project' he's being recruited for: Prospero. If I remember my Shakespeare, Prospero was very much a man who's time of magic and myth was being displaced by an age of reason and science. I wonder of the name of the project has a similar concept in mind.

I'll give last night's episode this, particularly as I've been a bit harsh on Series 4 up to this point: at least we had a decent b-plot going on with the acid-dumping story-line somehow effecting the anomaly. At least the series has begun to give us some logic to the anomalies themselves, something I've been waiting for a while now.

So, I'm going to be generous and give last night's episode a C+. It would have been a B- but for the bizarre ghost town RV park scene.

Patrick wrote:

Sid Seadevil wrote:Episode five methinks, old chap.

Fair enough. Let's start with what I posted last Saturday, and you can ask me questions from there:

Not only did no one else notice, there was no one there to notice. I found that lack of detail rather jarring. All those other Winnebegos parked, obvious signs of other people in the form of the clothes lines Abby kept drivinig through, and yet, not another soul in sight.

Which has been one of my major bugbears for the entire season. This plays into both the real-life reason that extras cost money, and the in-universe problem of suspension of disbelief. Are we really just suppose to accept that the death, damage and general mayhem caused by these creatures goes more or less totally unnoticed by the world at large? Doesn't that seriously undercut the believability of the drama for you? I mean, if even Elliott at the age of 10 finds himself actively bothered by the question while watching an episode - doesn't that constitute a major flaw that harms the shows internal logic? It's been remarked by the characters themselves in earlier series that these events can't be kept secret forever - so wouldn't it just make sense to address the public's growing awareness of the situation? That would add a whole new dimension to the drama which would actually enhance the series as a whole.

Patrick wrote:I didn't find that as objectionable as you did. The pitchfork-wielding lady did manage to sneak up and, as they say, 'get the drop' on our intrepid pair. It's an open question: if they had tried to shoot, would one or both of them have been perforated by the pitchfork before a shot from the taser rifle found it's mark?

Ah, but surely the point is they shouldn't have even needed to shoot. Just the simple fact that you have two people holding advanced weapons capable of stunning the woman in an instant negates the fact that she was armed with a pitchfork. One or both of them would have have disabled her threat with a simple trigger squeeze. There's no way that sense plays out in any believably logical manner.

Patrick wrote:I'm curious about the name of this 'other project' he's being recruited for: Prospero. If I remember my Shakespeare, Prospero was very much a man who's time of magic and myth was being displaced by an age of reason and science. I wonder of the name of the project has a similar concept in mind.

I haven't watched the final episode yet myself. But from what I've heard that question is addressed in some manner or other. But my guess would be that Doctor Bashir is somehow linked to all the troubles caused by the anomalies - possibly even as far as being somehow tied-in to Helen Cutter herself.

Patrick wrote:I'll give last night's episode this, particularly as I've been a bit harsh on Series 4 up to this point: at least we had a decent b-plot going on with the acid-dumping story-line somehow effecting the anomaly. At least the series has begun to give us some logic to the anomalies themselves, something I've been waiting for a while now.

That was one of the episode's main strengths - and something which some effort should definitely have been made by the writers to ensure was a constant throughout the series. The fact that the B story actually complimented the on-going events was a very welcome thing to see.

Patrick wrote:So, I'm going to be generous and give last night's episode a C+. It would have been a B- but for the bizarre ghost town RV park scene.

I do think that's rather over-generous old fellow, but I can certainly appreciate your reasoning for it.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Patrick wrote:Not only did no one else notice, there was no one there to notice. I found that lack of detail rather jarring. All those other Winnebegos parked, obvious signs of other people in the form of the clothes lines Abby kept drivinig through, and yet, not another soul in sight.

Which has been one of my major bugbears for the entire season. This plays into both the real-life reason that extras cost money, and the in-universe problem of suspension of disbelief. Are we really just suppose to accept that the death, damage and general mayhem caused by these creatures goes more or less totally unnoticed by the world at large? Doesn't that seriously undercut the believability of the drama for you? I mean, if even Elliott at the age of 10 finds himself actively bothered by the question while watching an episode - doesn't that constitute a major flaw that harms the shows internal logic? It's been remarked by the characters themselves in earlier series that these events can't be kept secret forever - so wouldn't it just make sense to address the public's growing awareness of the situation? That would add a whole new dimension to the drama which would actually enhance the series as a whole.

That's an excellent point, Sid. It's one thing to reduce the cost of production by limiting extras on camera. It's another to have that miserly control of the production budget result in audiences wondering where all the other people within the universe of the show are- particularly when given clues that there are other people around.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Patrick wrote:I didn't find that as objectionable as you did. The pitchfork-wielding lady did manage to sneak up and, as they say, 'get the drop' on our intrepid pair. It's an open question: if they had tried to shoot, would one or both of them have been perforated by the pitchfork before a shot from the taser rifle found it's mark?

Ah, but surely the point is they shouldn't have even needed to shoot. Just the simple fact that you have two people holding advanced weapons capable of stunning the woman in an instant negates the fact that she was armed with a pitchfork. One or both of them would have have disabled her threat with a simple trigger squeeze. There's no way that sense plays out in any believably logical manner.

Well, presented as it was, with their backs turned as she snuck up on them, as I said, I didn't find that the most glaring issue in the episode. The story required us to be introduced to the old lady and her son at some point, and dramatically, the scene accomplished that. Could it have been handled better? Sure. But I'm not going to draw that up as the worst moment of the episode.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Patrick wrote:I'm curious about the name of this 'other project' he's being recruited for: Prospero. If I remember my Shakespeare, Prospero was very much a man who's time of magic and myth was being displaced by an age of reason and science. I wonder of the name of the project has a similar concept in mind.

I haven't watched the final episode yet myself. But from what I've heard that question is addressed in some manner or other. But my guess would be that Doctor Bashir is somehow linked to all the troubles caused by the anomalies - possibly even as far as being somehow tied-in to Helen Cutter herself.

One of my consistent nagging issues with series 4 thus far has been with Helen Cutter dead, we've had no obvious villain of the piece. And that's important because Helen Cutter, for the first three series, was the explanation for how the anomalies appeared in the first place. With her gone, how are they opened? If Doctor Bashir is intended to be the one to step into the role of villain, they've been remarkably slow to do it, narratively. What we've gotten is a somewhat uneasy relationship between Lister and Siddig's character, which hasn't translated well dramatically.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Patrick wrote:I'll give last night's episode this, particularly as I've been a bit harsh on Series 4 up to this point: at least we had a decent b-plot going on with the acid-dumping story-line somehow effecting the anomaly. At least the series has begun to give us some logic to the anomalies themselves, something I've been waiting for a while now.

That was one of the episode's main strengths - and something which some effort should definitely have been made by the writers to ensure was a constant throughout the series. The fact that the B story actually complimented the on-going events was a very welcome thing to see.

Patrick wrote:So, I'm going to be generous and give last night's episode a C+. It would have been a B- but for the bizarre ghost town RV park scene.

I do think that's rather over-generous old fellow, but I can certainly appreciate your reasoning for it.

You know, back to the issue of the lack of extras for a moment. I think Primeval has missed a real opportunity to make the presence of the anomalies seem like more of an existential threat to mankind. Every week, we get the prehistoric monster du jour, with great snapping jaws and a taste for eating guest stars whole. Not every animal in history is a carniverous dinosaur. They could easily have upped the stakes, and brought their fictional public into the story if the anomalies had begun wreaking a series of plagues upon the world: an anomaly opens up, and millions of frogs appear in some small town. Another anomaly in the another part of the country, and we see a swarm of locust. That sort of thing. It could introduce a real "end of days" type of storyline, as everyone would have noticed it.

But, alas, they haven't hired either of us as story-writers.

Patrick wrote:That's an excellent point, Sid. It's one thing to reduce the cost of production by limiting extras on camera. It's another to have that miserly control of the production budget result in audiences wondering where all the other people within the universe of the show are- particularly when given clues that there are other people around.

And what actually makes it worse is that in an earlier episode of the series we actually had an innocent member of the public arrested for their partner's murder following a creature attack that the central characters were actively involved in. And our heroes reaction to this miscarriage of justice? Nothing. They knowingly allowed the person to be arrested and likely stand trial on the grounds that secrecy was paramount. There's a genuine dramatic and morally challenging potential in that idea - yet it was simply brushed aside.

Patrick wrote:Well, presented as it was, with their backs turned as she snuck up on them, as I said, I didn't find that the most glaring issue in the episode. The story required us to be introduced to the old lady and her son at some point, and dramatically, the scene accomplished that. Could it have been handled better? Sure. But I'm not going to draw that up as the worst moment of the episode.

Worst moment? No. But still an incredibly clumsy and lazy way to accomplish what they intended. But I will grant you that peoples mileage on this certainly vary.

Patrick wrote:the one to step into the role of villain, they've been remarkably slow to do it, narratively. What we've gotten is a somewhat uneasy relationship between Lister and Siddig's character, which hasn't translated well dramatically.

Having now seen the final episode, you'll be pleased to hear that it was certainly a small step up on previous weeks. There are answers - after a fashion. There is a resolution to certain issues, and highly trained personnel once again become brainless "red shirts" at the drop of a hat. Oddly, for me, it didn't feel like a season finale - more a mid season break episode. I'll definitely be looking forwards to hearing your take on it once it finally reaches your screen.

Patrick wrote:You know, back to the issue of the lack of extras for a moment. I think Primeval has missed a real opportunity to make the presence of the anomalies seem like more of an existential threat to mankind. Every week, we get the prehistoric monster du jour, with great snapping jaws and a taste for eating guest stars whole. Not every animal in history is a carniverous dinosaur. They could easily have upped the stakes, and brought their fictional public into the story if the anomalies had begun wreaking a series of plagues upon the world: an anomaly opens up, and millions of frogs appear in some small town. Another anomaly in the another part of the country, and we see a swarm of locust. That sort of thing. It could introduce a real "end of days" type of storyline, as everyone would have noticed it.

But, alas, they haven't hired either of us as story-writers.

Agreed entirely. That kind of scenario would have benefited the series no end. If this season has shown anything - it's that the writers have very much lacked the kind of unity of creative vision vehicle a showrunner like RTD or Moffat bring to Who. (Or even the type enjoyed on Merlin). Instead, what we constantly get is a retreading of the Monster-of-the-Week formula with token stabs at character development and "moving the story forward" thrown in. It's disappointing because it is wasting genuine potential. And that frustrates me no end.

Well, as I said, we didn't get to see episode 6 last night, which I'm guessing is the set-up episode for the series finale. The Top Gear Marathon continues on BBC-A even as we speak (we're currently at the episode featuring Clarkson driving a Nissan GTR across Japan while Hammond and May take the bullet train.)

Given that we're getting heavy advertising that Series 3 of Being Human starts on Feb. 19th, I can only conclude that they plan to show us both episodes 6 and 7 next week.

Which would make sense. One thing to note though - don't particularly expect episode six to provide that much of a lead-in to the final episode.

Some news on the up-coming fifth series. I'll place it in spoiler tabs so as not to er...spoil it for anyone who doesn't want a sneak peek.

Spoiler:

Oh yes, and there's the genuine possibility of a Primeval movie going into production.

So, I checked the viewing schedule for tonight. BBC-America will be showing a reprise of Episode 5, followed by the premiere of episode 6. Knowing that Being Human premieres next Saturday, I peeked ahead. Rather than a reprise of episode 6, BBC-A will give us episode 7 followed by the premiere of Being Human.

I guess after a week off for the Top Gear marathon last weekend, they've decided viewers need a reminder of what happened. I'm not entirely happy about this, as I would rather have had two episodes of Being Human next Saturday.

I can see why you're unhappy. A Being Human double bill is infinitely preferable.

Tonight, we'll finally get to see the seventh and final episode of this series. It will happen without the reprise of episode 6 before it, as following the series finale, the new series of Being Human will air.

It occurs to me that I haven't yet posted my thoughts about episode 6. I will give the episode this: at least with the brief reintroduction of Jenny, it felt more properly like the Primeval of old. And her conflict about not wanting to reveal her past work experience to her fiancee added some nice comedic touches.

We finally got a scene with some proper extras, too- at the actual wedding. Which is what makes several of the earlier scenes so jarring in contrast. Think about it- we have these prehistoric carniverous wolf-hounds roaming around what appears to be a Manor House/hotel where the wedding is to occur. Are we expected to believe that the guests only arrived the day of the event?

At night, the corridors of this manor home/hotel are spooky dark, and there's no apparent staff around. I get that this is supposed to lend atmosphere and let the dogs roam around largely un-noticed. And I object to that premise. If no one but the actual cast of the show is exposed to the danger, you've effectively watered down the tension. Where's the possibility of an innocent bystander making the discovery of the hounds, thus creating an even larger problem of the story having to be contained? Where's the chance of the hounds attacking some innocents, thus increasing the stakes by creating a sense of urgency to resolve this particular anomoly?

I'm sorry, but that corridor scene really bothered me. The wrongness of a public corridor with no lights on, and no apparent staff or other guests cannot be overstated. You can stretch the willing suspension of disbelief only so far, and when a story not only waters down its own in-universe sense of drama, but violates rules we know in the real world are nearly impossible to violate, you have reached that maximum stretch point.

Which brings me to the character of lady from the 19th Century whose been jumping through time via the anomalies. She's under some sort of house arrest for her own protection, yet they bring her along and tell her to simply wait in the car? And even with an armed guard watching the car, she manages to escape without being noticed?

Yes, the presence of Jenny in this episode did lend to a bit of a nostalgic feel, but that's not enough to save the episode from a flawed storyline. I'm of the opinion that not only is the limited budget when it comes to using extras a problem, I think the writers ought to be required to have their scripts go through a few more iterations of revision to tighten them up.

All of this leaves me feeling rather flat concerning the finale tonight. But I guess we'll soon see.