Red Riding

i'm looking forward to heston blumenthal and the red riding trilogy(both channel 4)

barnaby salton wrote:i'm looking forward to heston blumenthal and the red riding trilogy(both channel 4)

Yes, 'Red Riding' should be very interesting. Looking forward to that.

Red Riding...an amazing piece of British telly. Stunning.

2.5 million viewers according to the overnights - not sure whether that's good or disappointing. But like the programme for me really: good in parts, but dragged at other times. A question for anyone who saw it.

Spoiler:

In answer to your question...I don't know. I'd have to watch it again.

I did feel it was a little too long but apart from that it was superb.

Frank wrote:Red Riding...an amazing piece of British telly. Stunning.

I was going to watch it, but I've decided to read the books first - as I've read a book by David Peace and it was amazing.

With apologies for repeating what I posted elsewhere, but Red Riding reminded me very much of Moses Jones, and let down in the same way in it's willingness to be obscure for no reason, and went out of its way to equate bleakness with realism.

It was almost "Period Piece" television, but featuring the 1970's instead of the 1870's, with the creators missing the fact that any point in history isn't like the one presented here (most obviously, all the sets looked as though they were from a 1974 MFI catalogue, whereas actually most houses in any time period aren't furnished the year they are set, but feature an accumulation of belongings bought over several years).

The camera work was deliberately opaque, and refused to feature establishing shots or even focusing on certain characters, such as Garfield's older friend in the press conference at the beginning.

And finally, female characters were shown as either victims, sex objects or old maids.

It's as though someone wanted to recreate the feeling of a police programme from 1974 and rid the story of any advances since then. Unfortunately, Life On Mars addressed that in a far more sophisticated way, and what we are left with is the latest in a long line of what can only be described as nihilist dramas: brown and grey and devoid of any contrast. It screams out "Look at us, aren't we grown up!" to me, while actually admitting nothing but it's own adolescent fascination with tits, violence and swearing.

I probably would have loved it when I was fourteen.

Lee, what you are today, ITV will follow soon after.

What, fourteen?


Sorry, but it's a bugbear of mine, and has been for a while, that the 'arts' seem to equate bleakness with realism. This was something brought home to me a couple of years back when I read the then London Film Festival catalogue and saw that virtually every film contained one of the following words in it's brief description: harrowing, addiction, alcoholism, prostitution, bleak, stark, rape or violent. Suffice to say, I haven't attended since, and have little wish to. Red Riding is the latest in a long line of films made by the comfortably middle class about how they perceive the working class to be. I lived through the seventies, and even though my memories are filtered through the haze of childhood, it was nothing like that depicted in Red Riding.

Especially the feral kids playing on abandoned cars outside houses on derelict council estates. It's all bollocks of the highest order, and I really am shocked to read so many positive reviews of it since broadcasting.

This doesn't mean that I don't like progressive r challenging television drama, simply that this was neither, only challenging in the way it tried my patience.

I agree with Lee.

barnaby salton wrote:

Rich Flair wrote:

Frank wrote:Red Riding...an amazing piece of British telly. Stunning.

I was going to watch it, but I've decided to read the books first - as I've read a book by David Peace and it was amazing.

i'm reading "the damned united" about brian clough- very good. film coming out soon with michael sheen as old big 'ead

That's the one - an amazing book. As intense as reading American Psycho.

Anyway, my boss is buying me the first book for my birthday so I'll read that.

Lee Carey wrote:What, fourteen?


Sorry, but it's a bugbear of mine, and has been for a while, that the 'arts' seem to equate bleakness with realism. This was something brought home to me a couple of years back when I read the then London Film Festival catalogue and saw that virtually every film contained one of the following words in it's brief description: harrowing, addiction, alcoholism, prostitution, bleak, stark, rape or violent. Suffice to say, I haven't attended since, and have little wish to. Red Riding is the latest in a long line of films made by the comfortably middle class about how they perceive the working class to be. I lived through the seventies, and even though my memories are filtered through the haze of childhood, it was nothing like that depicted in Red Riding.

Especially the feral kids playing on abandoned cars outside houses on derelict council estates. It's all bollocks of the highest order, and I really am shocked to read so many positive reviews of it since broadcasting.

This doesn't mean that I don't like progressive r challenging television drama, simply that this was neither, only challenging in the way it tried my patience.

I can see your point, Lee. But...I have very different memories of the 1970s, where I did live in area similar to the one depicted in Red Riding. A council estate where cars were abandoned and vandalised on a regular basis, kids were utter monsters, women were victims of abuse. And although you have a point about the way the sets are decorated I actually think the general look is consistent with what I remember of very brown, smoke filled rooms. So it isn't bollocks of the highest order. It's exaggerated in Red Riding and this is all down to the confusing way it mucks about with documentary/reportage styles, I'll agree, but it isn't completely beyond the pale.

I, too, think that bleak is over-rated, but were they really going for realism? It was so brown it was practically filmed in sepia - more like a distopian past fantasy world to me.

Lee Carey wrote:What, fourteen?


Sorry, but it's a bugbear of mine, and has been for a while, that the 'arts' seem to equate bleakness with realism. This was something brought home to me a couple of years back when I read the then London Film Festival catalogue and saw that virtually every film contained one of the following words in it's brief description: harrowing, addiction, alcoholism, prostitution, bleak, stark, rape or violent. Suffice to say, I haven't attended since, and have little wish to. Red Riding is the latest in a long line of films made by the comfortably middle class about how they perceive the working class to be. I lived through the seventies, and even though my memories are filtered through the haze of childhood, it was nothing like that depicted in Red Riding.

Especially the feral kids playing on abandoned cars outside houses on derelict council estates. It's all bollocks of the highest order, and I really am shocked to read so many positive reviews of it since broadcasting.

This doesn't mean that I don't like progressive r challenging television drama, simply that this was neither, only challenging in the way it tried my patience.

it depends where you were though...the seventies was a time of depression unemployment, football hooliganism, police corruption, organised crime etc...i didn't experience them either (as i was about 3 and lived in middle class brighton) but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

the books are(allegedly) based on a time and place where these things did happen. they are a work of fiction- like james ellroy's LA quartet or american tabloid.

i thought it was very effective for what it was and i'm looking forward to thursday's with the mighty paddy considine.

I really hate to disagree with you, Frank.

Not to get too sidetracked by something quite trivial, but, I do remember things like abandoned cars, but not in the middle of the only green area of a housing estate- they were either abandoned in derelict places or outside their owners actual homes. And there's no way those kids would have been playing like that without a good shouting to from their parents.

I think that Stanmore sums things up the best: I'm reacting against the hype and reviews that praises Red Riding for its realism, whereas it actually possesses none, and contains less verisimilitude than Life On Mars, which at least, for all its fantasy, contained an emotional realism, which is the thing that Red Riding has least. It is a stylised fantasy, and indulges its middle class creators about as much as an episode of Stra Trek does.

Boys From The Blackstuff contains more reality in its opening credits than the entirety of Red Riding so far. And better jokes.

(Yosser in a confessional Booth):
"I'm desperate, Father!"
"Call me Dan."
"I'm desperate, Dan!"

Lee Carey wrote:I really hate to disagree with you, Frank.

Same here, but I'm with you, and Stan, Lee. Fingers crossed for Thursday, as I'm still planning to give it another go.

Lee Carey wrote:I really hate to disagree with you, Frank.

Not to get too sidetracked by something quite trivial, but, I do remember things like abandoned cars, but not in the middle of the only green area of a housing estate- they were either abandoned in derelict places or outside their owners actual homes. And there's no way those kids would have been playing like that without a good shouting to from their parents.

I think that Stanmore sums things up the best: I'm reacting against the hype and reviews that praises Red Riding for its realism, whereas it actually possesses none, and contains less verisimilitude than Life On Mars, which at least, for all its fantasy, contained an emotional realism, which is the thing that Red Riding has least. It is a stylised fantasy, and indulges its middle class creators about as much as an episode of Stra Trek does.

Boys From The Blackstuff contains more reality in its opening credits than the entirety of Red Riding so far. And better jokes.

(Yosser in a confessional Booth):
"I'm desperate, Father!"
"Call me Dan."
"I'm desperate, Dan!"

i don't think it was particularly "realistic" but thats not why i watched it(or why i watch any tv really).

there is plenty of contemporary 70s stuff which was equally grim- i'm thinking get carter, bring me the head of alfredo garcia, straw dogs-even the likes of high plains drifter. come to think of it they all had that sort of washed out look that i though red riding captured so well.
ever seen the public information films made about policing in the 70s? they are pretty full on.

although i suspect corrupt policemen were more like warren clarke than gene hunt as well. remember the west midlands serious crime squad for example?

and don't worry about disagreeing with frank- i do fairly often. (not this time though.)

Regarding public education films, I remeber seeing this farm safety film when I was at Junior School. There's no way they'd let under tens watch it now!

Lee Carey wrote:Regarding public education films, I remeber seeing this farm safety film when I was at Junior School. There's no way they'd let under tens watch it now!

link didn't work

but remember this one- JIMMMEEEEEE!!!!!!


electricity

Curses, it's been taken down since I last visited! (Basicly it was the farm education film, featuring many, many child deaths via such things as Tractor crushage, scythe impaling and drowning in silage.

Gave me nightmares for years!-)

Regarding the whole realism debate, I've got to say the fact that I found it unrealistic* it didn't actully hinder my enjoyment (though there were some issues about the emotional content that did). I always had a bugbear about unrealistic realism but then (suddenly and terribly) I didn't. I think it was during an episode of EastEnders - this isn't realistic this is The Prisoner and Ian Beale is number 6 but is too conceited to notice it. And then I thought, why on Earth did I think it was realistic in the first place? Because people like my brother's girlfriend (and, yes, a lot of people working as critics) will argue that it is - whilst dismissing (oh let's use it) Dr Who - for being unrealistic because it has a comedy scene with giant wasp in it. You like Casualty, a particularly bad soap crossed with a joyless remake of Final Destination. You have no right to speak here.

*and as I've never actually lived in anything approaching that world - Birmingham is just too dull to have corruption - I don't know if I can justify that claim.

Lee Carey wrote:Curses, it's been taken down since I last visited! (Basicly it was the farm education film, featuring many, many child deaths via such things as Tractor crushage, scythe impaling and drowning in silage.

Gave me nightmares for years!-)

i remember it well- utter carnage. i refused to visit the countryside for years...

stanmore wrote:Regarding the whole realism debate, I've got to say the fact that I found it unrealistic* it didn't actully hinder my enjoyment (though there were some issues about the emotional content that did). I always had a bugbear about unrealistic realism but then (suddenly and terribly) I didn't. I think it was during an episode of EastEnders - this isn't realistic this is The Prisoner and Ian Beale is number 6 but is too conceited to notice it. And then I thought, why on Earth did I think it was realistic in the first place? Because people like my brother's girlfriend (and, yes, a lot of people working as critics) will argue that it is - whilst dismissing (oh let's use it) Dr Who - for being unrealistic because it has a comedy scene with giant wasp in it. You like Casualty, a particularly bad soap crossed with a joyless remake of Final Destination. You have no right to speak here.

*and as I've never actually lived in anything approaching that world - Birmingham is just too dull to have corruption - I don't know if I can justify that claim.

on the contrary tom- the west midlands serious crime squad were notorious pre PACE- the birmingham six and keith twitchel cases spring to mind- as the most corrupt bastards to ever wield a truncheon

Yes, I have heard of them. Okay, Brummie policeman have been on their best behaivour around me...

stanmore wrote:Yes, I have heard of them. Okay, Brummie policeman have been on their best behaivour around me...

that is definitely a good thing...