Jonathan Ross

The Co=Ordinator wrote:I listened to it Rich, and TBH thought that Ross & Brand were awful. It wasn't comedy, it was pathetic.

Yes it was.

However, despite that and despite the broadcast there were no complaints until the Mail decided to treat it as a cause celebre. Why?

Listeners to both Brand and Ross knew what they were like. People predisposed to not finding them interesting or funny were not listening to either show. People who did hear the broadcast probably sighed, wrote the episode off as one of those situations where the comedy exists only in the minds of those involved and moved on.

The timeline is that a week later the Mail reacts. Then there's trouble. Hence the perspective that Frank and I share - that the Mail was handed a lovely opportunity to trash the BBC and ran with it. If Ross and Brand deserve a slap, that's the reason why. Being childish and pointless is just going to lose them viewers and listeners, a step Brand has already taken by resigning.

Al Ronson wrote:The problem with the Ross/Brand segment is that if you objected to it, then it was assumed you must be a Daily Mail reader wanting the BBC banned or something. There was a more thoughtful middleground.

And yet... nobody complained about it until after the Daily Mail went on about it a week later.

The Co=Ordinator wrote:I listened to it Rich, and TBH thought that Ross & Brand were awful. It wasn't comedy, it was pathetic.

Well, I respect your opinion on what you heard. I personally thought it was hilarious, because they were stuck in a routine from a Seinfeld episode that they couldn't get out of. They didn't go far enough, in my opinion, which would have been to follow the whole thing to it's conclusion and burgle Sachs' house and steal the answering machine tape before he heard it, as George Constanza did, and as writer Larry David did in real life.

But, one more question, Chief - was it a show you would normally listen to, or did you listen to it to hear what the outrage was all about?

Rich Flair wrote:But, one more question, Chief - was it a show you would normally listen to, or did you listen to it to hear what the outrage was all about?

I have listened to and watched Ross thousands of times. I occasionally heard Brand if in on a Saturday night, and not doing anything else - more because Mrs C=O would have it on. She used to like Brand, both on TV & wireless - not sure whether she does nowadays.

I love comedy that takes things to the edge, always have always will. I'm not a Daily Mail reader, nor a bandwagon jumper: I'm sure you know that - but I genuinely found what they did boorish, badly judged and desperately unfunny.

Hey, that's fair enough. I personally don't even think it should have been broadcast, as it was pre-taped anyway, but I think that the people who approved the broadcast (not Brand and Ross) were under the impression that Sachs had given the go ahead.

But, yes, I found it funny. What I did find sickening was the whole bandwagon Daily Mail thing. This poor man Sachs - we have so much sympathy for him what he's been through, and here's some saucy pictures of his granddaughter!

I like this quote on the matter from Charlie Brooker: "people who retrospectively complain to Ofcom about material they've only read about second-hand are, in essence, a bunch of sanctimonious crybabies indulging in a wretched form of masturbation".

And the happy ending?
Sachs came out of it quite well: Actor Sachs thanks Ross and Brand

and his Satanic Slut granddaughter is still making her Granddad proud:

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz/307300/Russell-Brands-Sachs-gate-girl-Georgina-Baillie-in-new-photos-Grandaughter-of-Fawlty-Towers-legend-Andrew-Sachs-topless.html

I have a comedic objection to it as well. In the nineties you had the likes of Chris Morris doing edgy pranks, but with some point to make behind it (about bandwagon jumping celebs or hysteria surrounding crime). The problem was that this then got imitated by clueless successors, who just thought being shocking and obnoxious was enough. All ending up in dreary, depressing Sachsgate.

Well, A-Man, that's a few leaps there. One, I think edgy comedy was introduced way before Chris Morris (I presume you approve of him announcing Heseltine's death live on the radio) and two, I don't think that post-Morris edgy pranks are necessarily influeneced by Morris.

Anyway, Al, you never answered my question. Have you heard the Brand show in question?

Rich Flair wrote:I like this quote on the matter from Charlie Brooker: "people who retrospectively complain to Ofcom about material they've only read about second-hand are, in essence, a bunch of sanctimonious crybabies indulging in a wretched form of masturbation".

I was out the country while all this was going on. When I came back, I heard about the fuss and listened to it on Youtube. I never complained, but I did find it a repellent listen, no hypocrisy there. Who cares what a media insider like Charlie Brooker says anyway.

Rich Flair wrote:And the happy ending?
Sachs came out of it quite well: Actor Sachs thanks Ross and Brand

and his Satanic Slut granddaughter is still making her Granddad proud:

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/showbiz/307300/Russell-Brands-Sachs-gate-girl-Georgina-Baillie-in-new-photos-Grandaughter-of-Fawlty-Towers-legend-Andrew-Sachs-topless.html

Oh there was plenty of negative consequences

Actor says `Sachsgate' split family
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?we_cat=7&art_id=81921&sid=23796535&con_type=1&d_str=20090511&fc=1

Baillie: Sachsgate sparked bulimia
http://entertainment.uk.msn.com/celebrity/news/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=148156144&GT1=61504

I'm also uncomfortable about the way that Baillie gets completely dehumanised in an attempt to defend these two repellent clowns. She can get her waps out all she wants, I don't think that makes her an evil person who its therefore open house on, along with her entire family, and laughing at the the thought that her Granddad "might die when he hears this".

The double standards of Sachsgate defenders who praise the supposed edginess of Brand and Ross but then turn round like Victorian Clergyman and condemn Baillie as a worthless whore. Symptomatic of a lot of mainstream pop culture, with its right wing complacency and nastiness.

I heard it at the time. Didn't find it funny, didn't find it particularly wrong. I thought Rossy was lisping a bit more than getting his Rs wrong, almost like he'd forgotten which speech impediment he had.

Rich Flair wrote:Well, A-Man, that's a few leaps there. One, I think edgy comedy was introduced way before Chris Morris (I presume you approve of him announcing Heseltine's death live on the radio)

I thought he went too far with that (Tory tw*t aside, what if his family was listening?). But seen within the context of a show made by one of the most cutting satirists of the past 20 years, as opposed to a couple of metropolitan narcissists with nothing to say, I'd maybe cut it a bit more slack. But Morris went too far on that occasion, no excuses. I'd like to hear it in full context though, missed it at the time.

Rich Flair wrote:and two, I don't think that post-Morris edgy pranks are necessarily influeneced by Morris.

I'd say, if we look at comedy past, the historical lead up to sachsgate crudely goes something like this.

70s - Racist comedy siding with life's bullies and winners
80s - Politically correct comedy reacting against that
90s - Reaction against politically correct comedy by left wing comics (Morris, Rob Newman)
00s - Newer comics misinterpreting that as comedy = siding with lifes bullies and winners.
And so we reach Sachsgate. Cyclical, I'll give it that.

Speaking of the historical precedent to this mess -

Russell Brand was invented by none other than John Wilmott, 2nd Earl of Rochester. He was a noted Restoration satirist, wit and poet who also went over the line and was forced to flee into obscurity while people forgot what an idiot he'd been.

Of course, he was touring Britain under the assumed name "Doctor Bendo", claiming to be a specialist in infertility treatments. This has all of the style that Brand's flight to Hollywood lacked.

Dave Webb wrote:Speaking of the historical precedent to this mess -

Russell Brand was invented by none other than John Wilmott, 2nd Earl of Rochester.

No, that' just his hairstyle your thinking of

Actually, Chris Morris didn't announce the death of Michael Heseltine live on air. He did a show where he tried to get people to pre-emptively contribute to Heseltine's obituary, which was a precursor to Brass Eye's 'what will people in the public eye do if the media tell them to' and at one point mentioned something about 'if we hear news of the death of Michael Heseltine during this show, we'll let you know' - the complaints were based on people taking that quote out of context.

My favourite part of it was when he called the DTI to ask if they'd seen Heseltine today, and when they said yes played a choral tribute to him and asked them to thank him for being alive on behalf of the nation.

As for the topic, I never understood why people find Brand funny before all this, though the advent of Michael McIntyre does mean he's no longer the least funny high-profile comedian.

Nick Barlow wrote:the advent of Michael McIntyre does mean he's no longer the least funny high-profile comedian.

Good call there Your Worshipfullness.

Nick Barlow wrote:Actually, Chris Morris didn't announce the death of Michael Heseltine live on air. He did a show where he tried to get people to pre-emptively contribute to Heseltine's obituary, which was a precursor to Brass Eye's 'what will people in the public eye do if the media tell them to' and at one point mentioned something about 'if we hear news of the death of Michael Heseltine during this show, we'll let you know' - the complaints were based on people taking that quote out of context.

That doesn't seem so bad now.