Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

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Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:25 am

The Tenth Doctor. The Eleventh Doctor. And the War Doctor. Clara Oswald. Rose Tyler. Loads of Daleks. And for good measure, let's throw in a Zygon. A tribute to 50 years. This one has an awful lot to live up to. So let's hear what you thought of it.

This thread will remain locked until Saturday, November 23, 2013. And the best part is that no spoiler alerts are necessary for North American Wrinklies, since we'll be seeing it as part of the global live simulcast of the 50th Anniversary special.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by konstantin on Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:30 pm

enjoyed that. cool way to change history without changing any of the history... thought they were very good performances. need to watch a 3rd or 4th time to listen to the score better - keep getting distracted by the story Wink
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:26 am


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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by andrea on Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:31 am

Well, I wasn't expecting to particularly enjoy that because I find the end of series 'epics' not much to my taste but actually I thought it absolutely great!  Really enjoyed it very much and will definitely be watching it again.  

It seemed a very inclusive sort of episode, with stuff to appeal to all fan types but without seeming too forced.  And as konstantin said, it changed (and also filled in) history without changing what happened which was very satisfying to me.  With the little Paul McGann episode and then this, I now really feel a continuity from Hartnell to Matt Smith.  

Plus, I could actually follow what was going on which I can't always do with rapid plot twists and over fast speech!

I've not been the greatest fan of Moffat's era overall (plenty of good stories within it) but as far as I'm concerned, he's really done well with this.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:08 am

I went 4/5 - really liked it, but a few bits that jarred with me, mainly turning the Last Great Time War into another generic sci-fi battle scene. Good fun, though.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Sun Nov 24, 2013 8:35 am

Nick Barlow wrote:I went 4/5 - really liked it, but a few bits that jarred with me, mainly turning the Last Great Time War into another generic sci-fi battle scene. Good fun, though.
I thought about that, too. But I can't figure out how they'd show a battle in a way we'd understand if they'd didn't do it as a sort of generic set piece. So I'm willing to cut them some slack for that. How do you visually realize a time war and show it to audiences in a way that's comprehensible, otherwise?

I do have a question about the apparent paradigm shift Mr. Moffat has sent us on. RTD established pretty convincingly in The End Of Time that as a closed society, the Time Lords became morally bankrupt and insane, seeking the "final option" to ascend from mortal bodies to become creatures of energy, freed from cause and effect. Fine, good, I get that, and it's pretty damning evidence of exactly how deranged the Doctor's people had become.

Now, however, he's on a journey home, the long way. Gallifrey isn't destroyed, it's just misplaced. So what about his people? Are they still as decadent and mad as ever? And if so, why would the Doctor want to go home to that? Whatever happened to the idea that you can't go home again?

Well, setting the bigger questions this left me with aside, I still found this completely brilliant as a story, and I was genuinely stunned to see Sir Thomas of Baker making that wonderful cameo. Wonderful dialogue and chemistry between Smith, Tennant and Hurt. And those paintings... my God, can you just imagine how great those must have looked in the theater in 3D? Obviously, my pre-order for this on BluRay has been submitted to Amazon.

L: 5/5 for me.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Aspadistra on Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:49 pm

Jolly good fun.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:00 pm

My vote would be "Pum Deg 6" but as I can only go up to 5, then 5 it will have to be.

Eventually the most advanced war will reach a point where it becomes a face to face slugging match between the two opponents. This is why the Last Day and the fall of Arcadia is seen as a standard sci-fi battle with bombs and laser beams.

My reading of the situation is The Day of the Doctor occured a few days prior The End of Time.  By the time events on Gallifrey roll around to The End of Time, the High Council and Lord President Dalton still believe The Doctor, having dealt with the Daleks is out there waiting for his moment to use the Moment to similarly dispatch Gallifrey.  The barking mad President decides the Krikkett option is the only one left open, in order to deal with The Doctor, they have to destroy everything, themselves included.  Fortunately for the Universe, but not The Doctor, The Master dealt with President Dalton, so the shattered Gallifrey remains hidden in a time lock.  I say unfortunately for The Doctor, as when he finds Gallifrey, with The Master now in charge, his welcome home is going to be icy than usual.

Of course, I don't think he would be welcomed by his people anyway, as I suspect The Doctor has spent centuries putting the spanner into the Time Lords' war effort with an equal effeciencey that he put a spanner into the Dalek's war effort. Both sides regard him us the ultimate Pariah and unless he does something pretty damn heroic to save Gallifrey when he does find it, he is going to be put on trial for high treason by his fellow Time Lords.

My interpretation of the return of Tom is that he was another Avatar of the Moment. Basically telling The Doctor to stop lolling around in the National Gallery and get back and finish the half finished job of saving Gallifrey.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by konstantin on Sun Nov 24, 2013 5:04 pm

Though, on my hearing - sounds like he was interacting with the high command (military defence) on gallifrey in this story, and the High Council "had their own plans" -- so could have been a difference of opinion between the ruling mucky-mucks and the more normal grunts left in charge of the day to day dirty work --
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Nick Barlow on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:03 pm

The General said 'the High Council's plans have already failed' (or words to that effect), so I assume that this is meant to take place after the events we saw in The End Of Time, when the war council is pretty much the only surviving authority.

As for 'how do you show the Time War?' my answer would be to follow what had been done already, and not show it. You could start with the War Doctor meeting the soldier in the ruins, with perhaps the soldier saying his gun was useless and the Doctor using it to send his message. Then the scenes with the Doctor and the Moment reinforce the bizarreness of the whole thing - that this is the war where the ultimate superweapon is sentient and looking to find a way not to be used reinforces that.

And if you accept that this is the way it always was but the Doctor didn't remember it until he'd been through it as Eleven, then what if the Moment was never actually a weapon? What if someone (and my suggestion would be Compassion from the EDAs) created it and told everyone that it was a weapon so powerful it could never be fired (and would enver allow itself to be used), knowing that only the Doctor would ever be mad enough to attempt to use it. The power of the Moment would then be able to help the Doctor find a way to end the war.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Kristen Stone on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:51 pm

I've waited 50 years for this! Brilliantly done. Interaction between the three doctors was great, it looked like they really got on together.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by konstantin on Mon Nov 25, 2013 8:36 pm

Just saw the 3d version -- well done, and not as distracting as I feared - even put to good use --
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:25 am

So you saw it in the theater, then, Konstantin? I was not so fortunate, as it wasn't playing anywhere near me, but I'm told it had some fun bits, like Matt Smith welcoming everyone to "the 100th Anniversary of Doctor Who in 12D" and Strax, before the film started, demanding "communications devices off!" and commanding everyone to be silent during the transmission, before encouraging everyone to "enjoy your exploded corn creatures." I also understand there was a making of feature narrated by Colin Baker. Sounds fun!

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by konstantin on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:02 pm

saw the original simulcast transmission at the local micor-brewery, then caught the evening repeat on BBCamerica, then saw the 3d version at theater on monday...

yes, the extras were rather good.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Dave Webb on Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:01 am

The Browncoat Cat wrote:

My reading of the situation is The Day of the Doctor occured a few days prior The End of Time.  
Nope.  The General says that the High Council's plans have already failed and Gallifrey is still in the line of fire.  Rassilon's plan was to move Gallifrey, which is what happens in The End of Time.  

The Browncoat Cat wrote:My interpretation of the return of Tom is that he was another Avatar of the Moment.  Basically telling The Doctor to stop lolling around in the National Gallery and get back and finish the half finished job of saving Gallifrey.  
There's room for interpretation, I suppose, since Tom's dialogue isn't particularly specific.  I think the general idea is that Tom is a future Doctor, who has done exactly what the Doctor has just suggested - retired to curate the secret portion of the National Gallery.  He turns up to show that there's a future, and if what he says is true, it means the Doctor solves his nagging regeneration problem (The General also says that the Capaldi Doctor is number 13) and more to the point he's the evidence that Gallifrey is saved.

The whole thing was...yeah.  Hard to assign a value to, and in combination with the other 50th Anniversary shows and web features, it was a heck of a night.  I was unspoiled for the whole thing and thoroughly enjoyed it, had a bit of an odd reaction on the night because I'm not sure saving Gallifrey makes for a good idea and I wasn't overjoyed by the assault on Arcadia (but as Cat points out, there's a time in every war when it comes down to infantry scrapping against infantry and that's what we saw: the last ditch street by street defense of Arcadia) but it contained some damned good moments.

I don't think I've ever given a five out of five before, and this wasn't perfect, but it was a nine point five out of ten and that's as near to five out of five as makes no odds.  So.  Huzzah!

Interesting afterthought: If someone on a forum somewhere asked "what should I watch last" instead of "what should I watch first", this is the episode I would point them to. This is an excellent end to fifty years, and a good stepping off point for fans who have been worn out by the whole thing. The story that we've been so attached to for so long appears to be over.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Browncoat Cat on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:32 pm

And my friend Tim Farr pointed out that Tom being an avatar of the Moment fits in perfectly with Doctor#4's last words.  Its the end, but The Moment has been prepared for. On the one level, it continues to mean what it has for the past four decades, that the Regeneration Process has been underway for days. However, Mr. Moffat has now added another level to the line.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:42 am

After several weeks due thought and consideration, and at least 3 viewings, I've given this 4/5.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Patrick on Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:36 am

I'm very curious, C=O: what caused you to deduct a point and not give it a perfect score?

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:57 am

Because there were sections I found boring, because the Zygon plot was not wrapped, and because the whole Hurt Doctor thing was so clearly written for Eccleston - hence the interface being Rose as this was set before he met her.

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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by Rich Flair on Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:42 am

It wasn't written for Eccleston. He'd given his answer before the episode was written. Moffat says that it would have been a different story if Eclceston was in it because he doesn't think he works as the incarnation that destroyed Gallifrey. And the Zygon plot was wrapped - they negotiated a peace treaty.
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Re: Rate: "The Day Of The Doctor"

Post by The Co=Ordinator on Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:09 am

If you want to believe Moffat Rich, then that's up to you.

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