Rate "Cold Blood"

What a bastard!

Graymalkin wrote:

warped wrote:And I like that the characters were reasonably well-motivated...

I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say they were well motivated but I see what you're saying and, broadly-sketched¹ though they may have been, motivations were indeed present.

And you would have no way of knowing that the major part of that comment's context stemmed from me being punched in the face last night by an ex I bumped into in a pub town. Punched in the face for being 'a b*****d'². Punched in the face for being 'a b*****d' by an ex who dumped me to move in with the bloke she'd been seeing behind my back. Ten years ago³.

Still got it.

1) 'Me soldier! Me want WAR!!!', for example...
2) Which, normally, I'd accept as fair comment. But read on...
3) A situation so bizarre I genuinely found it funny and started laughing. That helped.

So you're basing your opinion on whether a TV character was well motivated on what one person did to you? They were well motivated if you ask me, someone is 'attacking' your home what do you do? Go out and ask nicely to stop or pick up your baseball bat.

Some random thoughts after finally getting the chance to watch this episode yesterday:

- Poor Rory. Gone and forgotten. Probably the cruelest death the show has ever given a companion. Even Adric, as disliked as he was by fandom, got silent end credits to commemorate his death, and the TARDIS regulars certainly didn't forget him.
- What stunning sets! They must have blown quite a portion of the budget on making that Silurian city seem real. I'm not talking about the wide angle/CGI shots, I'm talking about the internal corridors and rooms, and that large hall of justice.
- I have to agree with Warped: the characters, particularly the women (of both species) were shown as three dimensional and possessing believeable motivations for their actions.
- Those foot soldier Silurians- were they all wearing masks? I got a distinct Sleestak vibe from them because of those large, round black eyes.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode. I gave it a four.

Patrick wrote:- What stunning sets! They must have blown quite a portion of the budget on making that Silurian city seem real. I'm not talking about the wide angle/CGI shots, I'm talking about the internal corridors and rooms, and that large hall of justice.

The Hall of Justice was Platform One and the place on New Earth where the Face of Boe died.

Restak was motivated by wanting to avenge/protect her sister.

Patrick wrote:Those foot soldier Silurians- were they all wearing masks? I got a distinct Sleestak vibe from them because of those large, round black eyes.

That's what they reminded me of too.

Mrs Lee wrote:So you're basing your opinion on whether a TV character was well motivated on what one person did to you?

Not at all, since I'd quarter-despaired of the low-level characterisation while I was watching the episode the day before. I was self-indulging myself with a facetious comment that lacked a punchline - one of the perils of letting my fingers carry on typing while my brain was off in an elsewhere. I felt it was clearly marked that I was barely being a tenth serious but, as so often happens, the limits of typed conversation once again apparently foil my intentions. Apologies, yet again, to anyone who is or will be annoyed by my vagueness and vacuosity.

They were well motivated if you ask me...

It wasn't so much the root motivations, or the cause of those motivations, it was that the characters were all pretty... one-note. They were painted in primary colours, and I just feel some more shading wouldn't have gone amiss - particularly when you've got ninety minutes to play with.

Clearly I'm in a minority as regards the characterisation in the story, though, so perhaps it's not such a problem as it, at first viewing, appeared. Perhaps I'll change my mind after rewatching, as I so often do. I'm fickle like that.

Patrick wrote:Those foot soldier Silurians...I got a distinct Sleestak vibe from them...

For those of us not keeping up (by which I mean 'me'), who or what is a Sleestak?

Had to do a tad of Modding peeps, first time in decades. Let's keep to Wrinkly principles please.

Graymalkin wrote:

Patrick wrote:Those foot soldier Silurians...I got a distinct Sleestak vibe from them...

For those of us not keeping up (by which I mean 'me'), who or what is a Sleestak?

Part time bad-guys from a 1970s Saturday morning series called "Land of the Lost". Observe:

Lucy McGough wrote:

Patrick wrote:- What stunning sets! They must have blown quite a portion of the budget on making that Silurian city seem real. I'm not talking about the wide angle/CGI shots, I'm talking about the internal corridors and rooms, and that large hall of justice.

The Hall of Justice was Platform One and the place on New Earth where the Face of Boe died.

Somebody identified it as the Temple of Peace in Cardiff over at GB.

0.02 posts per day? I think there are Silurians in suspended animation that post more frequently than I.

Graymalkin wrote:
Clearly I'm in a minority as regards the characterisation in the story, though, so perhaps it's not such a problem as it, at first viewing, appeared. Perhaps I'll change my mind after rewatching, as I so often do. I'm fickle like that.

You might be in a minority, but you aren't alone.

The characters weren't nearly as interesting as people seem to think; on the one hand, a Chekov's Gun got loaded (the boy's dyslexia) and never fired. Why was it such a big deal? Secondly, the characterisation- at least as written- played with stereotypical roles. The lad's mum and dad could have had their roles reversed and been straight out of the 70s. Likewise, our two geologists could both have been male, or female, and - as written - they aren't anything special. (Although, if they'd been a same sex couple it would have ruptured some bloodvessels on GB).

What sets them above, I think, is the casting. There are some very good actors covered in makeup and some equally ace ones playing people. It makes a difference.

The script, though...how hard was this to get right? Chibbers needed to take The Silurians and update them. In order to do so, he gives us a cut down version of the original story - which is beat for beat the same as this two-parter - and removes the presence of UNIT so the humans don't have a military option. I honestly believe that Malcolm Hulke's original story is so good that Chibnall couldn't go too far wrong with this. All he really needed to do was not cover it in petrol and set light to it. The dialogue, and especially the Doctor's dialogue, is a bit special, but the hard work was already done by one of the best ever.

Hacky wrote:0.02 posts per day? I think there are Silurians in suspended animation that post more frequently than I.

In which case my dear Hacky, may I suggest you get your arse in gear and start posting here more often!

Hacky wrote:

Lucy McGough wrote:

Patrick wrote:- What stunning sets! They must have blown quite a portion of the budget on making that Silurian city seem real. I'm not talking about the wide angle/CGI shots, I'm talking about the internal corridors and rooms, and that large hall of justice.

The Hall of Justice was Platform One and the place on New Earth where the Face of Boe died.

Somebody identified it as the Temple of Peace in Cardiff over at GB.

0.02 posts per day? I think there are Silurians in suspended animation that post more frequently than I.

your avatar is really disturbing! 70s porno TARDIS

I'm in the good-but-not-great crowd. I agree that the characterisation wasn't all that - and I thought that the humans were sketched a whole lot better than their reptile equivalent. Which is par for the course for Doctor Who, but if the Silurians had the same care put into them as the family, then the tragedy of the two species not being able to coexist would be further highlighted.

stanmore wrote:I'm in the good-but-not-great crowd. I agree that the characterisation wasn't all that - and I thought that the humans were sketched a whole lot better than their reptile equivalent. Which is par for the course for Doctor Who, but if the Silurians had the same care put into them as the family, then the tragedy of the two species not being able to coexist would be further highlighted.

Agreed. But then, a lot of what we know about the humans isn't in the writing, it's in what we already know about families (whether real or on TV). For the Silurians, I suspect there wouldn't have been time to create the same feel of familiarity. The lines about characters coming from the same genetic line doesn't really tell us much about bonds or lineage. I wonder, too, whether Chibnall threw out ideas like 'nest-mates' or egg type references as being a bit cliche for an advanced species.

stanmore wrote:I agree that the characterisation wasn't all that - and I thought that the humans were sketched a whole lot better than their reptile equivalent. Which is par for the course for Doctor Who, but if the Silurians had the same care put into them as the family, then the tragedy of the two species not being able to coexist would be further highlighted.

I, personally, found Restak's grief over her sister's death very moving, and I could readily believe that two sisters would share the same bellicose temperament. So - yeah, that bit worked for me, but YMMV.

Dave Webb wrote:The characters weren't nearly as interesting as people seem to think; on the one hand, a Chehkov's Gun got loaded (the boy's dyslexia) and never fired. Why was it such a big deal?

I *think* there may have been intent near the end to fire it (but probably a line was dropped or something).

I base that on the fact that the acknowledgement of dyslexia began with a story (gruffalo, I presume?). And Elliott's communication consequences and workarounds were evident in the map-drawing. Finally, when the Doctor announced that the humans returning to the surface would have to *communicate* through their society in *stories* and such about the Silurians/Homo reptilia in order to change the current attitudes, Elliott was the one who specifically responded by embracing that 1000-year task. He was the one who would be next responsible for telling a story of them, somehow.

I think a scene of Elliot starting work on that story would've been better than the voiceover guy and/or half of Ambrose's remorse scene, but that's just me...

Having Elliot start writing would have made some sense, but I can see them cutting something like that if they also cut that nice scene in the first part where the Doctor and Amy are walking down towards the mine.

In which case my dear Hacky, may I suggest you get your arse in gear and start posting here more often!

My gear shift is stuck.

Lucy McGough wrote:

stanmore wrote:I agree that the characterisation wasn't all that - and I thought that the humans were sketched a whole lot better than their reptile equivalent. Which is par for the course for Doctor Who, but if the Silurians had the same care put into them as the family, then the tragedy of the two species not being able to coexist would be further highlighted.

I, personally, found Restak's grief over her sister's death very moving, and I could readily believe that two sisters would share the same bellicose temperament. So - yeah, that bit worked for me, but YMMV.

"You Must Make Vegemite"? "Yay! Michael Macintyre's vanished!"? I really should learn these internet acronyms.

To me, the two of them felt a very familiar trope. In my mind's eye (ie probably wrong) there's a Restakish character communicating entirely in contemptuous put-downs of humanity whilst bigging up the idea of war in every single episode of Deep Space Nine. And I know you need that kind of character as a tension-generator... (At least the warlike woman on the human side had the decency to look shocked at what she was doing...)

Was I the only person who thought 'damn, they've killed Rory... why couldn't it have been Amy?'

She is the most annoying, childish pain in the arse companion we've had in a long time. Sitting there discussing the future of her planet and she's bored. Poor darling.

Give me strength....

I agree with Gray - some poor acting/direction choices to convey larger ideas.

Haven't been terribly impressed with this series. I like Matt Smith's Doctor (even though he looks like Wallace in certain lighting - I keep expecting him to say 'Cheese, Gromit!') but Amy Pond annoys the hell out of me. I liked Rory. But the stories haven't grabbed me TBH.

No, you'd be very far from being the last person to think that!

stanmore wrote:"You Must Make Vegemite"? "Yay! Michael Macintyre's vanished!"? I really should learn these internet acronyms.

"Your Mileage May Vary."

Kate wrote:Was I the only person who thought 'damn, they've killed Rory... why couldn't it have been Amy?'

YANA.

Kate wrote:Was I the only person who thought 'damn, they've killed Rory... why couldn't it have been Amy?'

She is the most annoying, childish pain in the arse companion we've had in a long time. Sitting there discussing the future of her planet and she's bored. Poor darling.

Give me strength....

I agree with Gray - some poor acting/direction choices to convey larger ideas.

Haven't been terribly impressed with this series. I like Matt Smith's Doctor (even though he looks like Wallace in certain lighting - I keep expecting him to say 'Cheese, Gromit!') but Amy Pond annoys the hell out of me. I liked Rory. But the stories haven't grabbed me TBH.

Thank you Kate, for saving me the effort of having to type out a similar post. I'm liking Smith more than I did at the start of the series, though I don't think he'll ever be right up amongst my favourite Doctors, but the rest is just leaving me a bit meh.

And to add in a point I saw in a post somewhere else, I don't think the crack is working as an arc plot - Bad Wolf, Torchwood, Saxon and the missing planets were all stuff we as an audience could spot, but you could understand the characters not seeing it or dismissing it as a coincidence. The crack, though, has been signalled as something extremely bad and dangerous since at least episode 5, has just wiped Rory from existence and appears to signal the destruction of the TARDIS, yet it doesn't seem to have spurred the Doctor into action.

Kate wrote:Was I the only person who thought 'damn, they've killed Rory... why couldn't it have been Amy?'.

Yes, and me too.

This series isn't doing much for me either.

It's working for me, partly because I could watch Matt Smith play the Doctor until people pay me enough to stop but mostly because I think I've worked out what my real problem is.

I think we got a bit spoiled by the RTD era, which at times appeared to have no brakes. Doing things bigger and grander and dafter was the RTD way, so other than Spitfires in Space (how Dan Dare was that?) we haven't had any really silly but curiously satisfying ideas all season.

We've had some very good performances and some quite low scale stories. If the show is calming down after the four year Tennant sugar-rush, that might be a good thing. We'll see. There's a finale coming, unfortunately, and I'll be fascinated to see what Moffat decides to do.

I suspect a cliffhanger ending. I truely do.

Kate wrote:She is the most annoying, childish pain in the arse companion we've had in a long time. Sitting there discussing the future of her planet and she's bored. Poor darling.

Who would you say was the last annoying, childish pain in the arse? Classic series?