A Christmas Carol. Pre-transmission discussion

I think this calls for another Top Three!

Have we done a series by series top three for the Davies era (with all the Christmas specials added to the year of specials as one separate series)? I think it'd be very interesting, especially in comparison to what we felt about those stories from the time.

Just set up a Nu-Who Top 3. Effectively the 5 series plus the specials.

It may be found here.

Lee Carey wrote:

Nick Barlow wrote:For me, it's both - I think she's written badly, and I don't think Gillan's anywhere near as good an actress as any of her recent predecessors.

Everyone keeps saying she's badly written, but then never actually backs up any proof of this statement beyond her inappropriate humour at inopportune moments-- which is actually characterisation, not bad writing.

For me, Amy is not the problem. I think Karen does a fine job.

For me, the problem is Rory. He's a bland and uninteresting character, and as portrayed by Arthur, he's passive and whimpy.

For me, the difference between Amy and Rory is that she's a collection of one-liners and weird deliveries, whereas he comes across as a much more rounded character. I'd rather have passive and wimpy than weird and bored!

Patrick wrote:

Lee Carey wrote:

Nick Barlow wrote:For me, it's both - I think she's written badly, and I don't think Gillan's anywhere near as good an actress as any of her recent predecessors.

Everyone keeps saying she's badly written, but then never actually backs up any proof of this statement beyond her inappropriate humour at inopportune moments-- which is actually characterisation, not bad writing.

For me, Amy is not the problem. I think Karen does a fine job.

For me, the problem is Rory. He's a bland and uninteresting character, and as portrayed by Arthur, he's passive and whimpy.

Whereas I like Rory and find him perfectly interesting while I find Amy far too 'in your face'. I just feel I wouldn't like to meet her in real life. I'd be expecting her to attack me (verbally, not physically!) all the time. I find her rather aggressive and I don't like that.

Lee Carey wrote:Having rewatched the entire new series over the course of the last couple of years, I'd disagree with that-- I now think Billie to be the worst actress playing a companion over the last few years, and much of her success in retrospect was acting opposite an actor as good as Christopher Eccleston-- her acting in series two was nowhere near as good as that in series one, and I find her unwatchable outside Dr Who. Freema, meanwhile, gets a lot of unnecessary criticism, in part due to following Billie. She's actually a really good actress, and while there are one or two scenes from early in series three where she comes across as a tad overwhelmed by her surroundings, I rate her now as better than Billie, and feel she's improving all the time now in Law & Order: UK. Catherine Tate, meanwhile, wins respect through sheer force of personality, and again, I'd hesitate before saying she was either better written or a better actress than Amy/Karen Gillan.

I'll certainly grant that Billie was nowhere near as good in Series 2 than she was in the first, but I think the C=O's on to something with his suggestion that it was more the way Rose and the Doctor's characters were drawn - rather than any genuinely serious qualitative drop acting-wise.

As for Freema, as you'll doubtless remember Lee, I could be found flying hither, there and yon defending her against the likes of Sir/Mister Kelsey and his ilk. My remarks regarding Karen being at Freema's level might well have been expressed better - but they were by no means a slight against either actress. I merely meant that here, in Series 5, Karen is at about the same level of experience and confidence, ability-wise as Freema was the begging of her time with the show. A good, if inexperienced actress, who displays genuine promise. Freema has made good on that promise by getting, in my opinion, better with every role since DW. There's absolutely no reason to believe that Karen won't progress in exactly the same way.

So in reality, our views aren't really that far apart at all. It's mainly just down to, my, lack of clarity in my original post.

As for what the GallifreyBase mob calls you - don't give them a second thought. I wouldn't if it were me.

Lee Carey wrote:Saw it yesterday at the BFI showing, and thought it brilliant. Very unlike Davies' Christmas specials, this is equally funny, very sentimental and incredibly christmassy, and very un-Doctor Who-ish in many ways. If Runaway Bride was Doctor Who's attempt at screwball comedy, then A Christmas Carol is the same programme's take on Frank Capra-- for all there are happy endings and proof of the goodness in all people, at the heart of things there is still a huge well of darkness.

Standout moments are the wee of the latest Star Trek film in how the starship's control room is shot (complete with far too much lens flare); the Doctor's proof that he knows Santa; and his total inability to understand romantic human relationships in marriage to Marilyn Munroe...

Dr Who and sci-fi purists are going to hate this, but I loved it and as a result will probably steer well clear of any message boards once this has transmitted.

How would you rate it compared to the other Xmas specials? List!

Rich Flair wrote:
How would you rate it compared to the other Xmas specials? List!

It's really hard to compare because it is so unlike any other special-- although that said I think all the specials have been very different from each other in tone and subject matter to make them all incomparable with each other. In terms of being a very unusual Doctor Who story, I'd say it's reminiscent to the Runaway Bride, but where that was aping 30's screwball comedies such as Bringing Up Baby, A Christmas Carol is far closer to being a Frank Capra film.

At this moment in time I'd say it's quite possibly my favourite Christmas episode and rate it alongside The Christmas Invasion, still in retrospect Davies best Christmas special (although I have to say I don't count End of Time in with the other Christmas specials).

Sorry, that probably doesn't help does it.

If A Christmas Carol is genuinely Capra-esque, I'm giddily excited.

My mate who went to see this earlier in the week popped by this evening, and gave me a full lowdown of the episode. He did not enjoy of "A Christmas Carol".

Having said that, when we watched a special preview of "Midnight" together he hated that whereas I adored it. So I'm pretty sure I'll love it!

FWIW, his favourite Christmas Special by a mile is "Voyage of the Damned"

Well, Voyage of the Damned is the best Xmas special so far, and Midnight is over-rated, so maybe I'll hate 'A Christmas Carol' as well.

Luckily for me series 5 has got new Who out of my system, so I haven't been particularly excited about the Xmas episode anyway - I haven't even seen the trailer yet.

The Co=Ordinator wrote:Trailer for "A Christmas Carol" that can hopefully be viewed worldwide.

http://www.bbcamerica.com/content/23/anglophenia.jsp?bc_id=2095

Judging from this trailer, I could not believe how "Old School" the look and feel of this story appears to be. I could imagine Tom Baker and Lalla Ward in full 1979 mode wandering around in the background, and not be out of place at all.

The Co=Ordinator wrote:My mate who went to see this earlier in the week popped by this evening, and gave me a full lowdown of the episode. He did not enjoy of "A Christmas Carol".

Having said that, when we watched a special preview of "Midnight" together he hated that whereas I adored it. So I'm pretty sure I'll love it!

FWIW, his favourite Christmas Special by a mile is "Voyage of the Damned"

Voyage of the Damned was mostly drivel. Your friend must be some sort of freakish outlier. I can't imagine many people actually liking it.

Rich Flair wrote:Well, Voyage of the Damned is the best Xmas special so far, and Midnight is over-rated, so maybe I'll hate 'A Christmas Carol' as well.

Er, um. I mean, it had its moments, of course.

Hacky wrote:

Voyage of the Damned was mostly drivel. Your friend must be some sort of freakish outlier. I can't imagine many people actually liking it.

AI of 86, dude!

Hacky wrote:Your friend must be some sort of freakish outlier.

Your perceptive skills do you proud Hacky!

Rich Flair wrote:

Hacky wrote:

Voyage of the Damned was mostly drivel. Your friend must be some sort of freakish outlier. I can't imagine many people actually liking it.

AI of 86, dude!

I concede that it is conceivable that more people than you and C=O's mate might have appreciated the episode. Now here's my chance to make a complete idiot of myself and deride the great uneducated masses who dared to like a story I wasn't particularly fond of....

Nah. Internet windup is a full-time job and I'm afraid I don't have the time or skills for it. Oh and on a completely unrelated note, does Spara still post hereabouts?

The Christmas Invasion is still the best Christmas ep, so far as I'm concerned.

*double-take* Hacky!

Aspadistra wrote:The Christmas Invasion is still the best Christmas ep, so far as I'm concerned.

*double-take* Hacky!

Yes, I've been making the rounds lately. I stopped by the Crater of Needles around our Thanksgiving holiday and I saw that you were surprised to see me pop up there, but then I got busy with work again.

Just dropped in on the Milk Bar too. Couldn't resist opportunity to Photoshop C=O.

My local paper, The Denver Post, has an article on A Christmas Carol.

CLICK! Be advised there's some mild spoilers contained in the article.

Voyage of the Damned had Kylie and wasn't anywhere near as bad as people seem to believe. Plus, did I mention it had Kylie in a maid's outfit...?

Christmas Invasion is still my personal favourite though.*

*I actually try to turn my critical thinking circuits off when it comes to the Christmas specials though - it's the holidays and I'm prepared to cut the production team some slack. I actually welcome some light, frothy and undemanding fun from my Christmas Day telly*

Sid Seadevil wrote:*I actually try to turn my critical thinking circuits off when it comes to the Christmas specials though - it's the holidays and I'm prepared to cut the production team some slack. I actually welcome some light, frothy and undemanding fun from my Christmas Day telly*

Well, quite!

I may not have loved Voyage of the Damned mid-series, but for Xmas day it was just what was needed. It's worth bearing in mind that people tend to watch the Xmas specials drunk!

Exactly. Silly, undemanding fun for a silly, inebriated day. Tis the very definition of good Christmas telly!

Rich Flair wrote:It's worth bearing in mind that people tend to watch the Xmas specials drunk!

Do they? Have you any statistical evidence to substantiate this? Do BARB have a P*issed AI?

The Co=Ordinator wrote:Do they? Have you any statistical evidence to substantiate this? Do BARB have a P*issed AI?

If BARB don't have such a thing - then they ruddy well should have!