Rate "A Christmas Carol"

THIS IS THE SID DANCING

the sid with his cats

THE SID WITH HIS MATES

It isn't very nice to post pictures of The C=O, Zoltar, barnaby and Rich without asking first, hatchling.

Oh, and you need glasses - cos I'm not in it.

Sid Seadevil wrote:Whhhhhaaaaaaaaat! You dare to compare me - me to Doctor Sheldon L Cooper. Uber nerd and ultra comic-booky geek!

How very dare you, hatchling! How very dare you!


*Stalks off to find somebody to calm him by singing "Soft Kitty" soothingly...

Indeed, what a horrible thing to suggest. Oh by the way, here, you must've dropped your Justice League membership card.

its none of them its just you and some people none of the wrinklies because there cool

Zoltar wrote:Indeed, what a horrible thing to suggest. Oh by the way, here, you must've dropped your Justice League membership card.

Horrible indeed. Oh and thank you, Zoltar for finding my Jus....

*pauses, thinks*

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. That impressive and official-looking laminated, Justice League membership card certainly doesn't belong to me.

ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?

Sid Seadevil wrote:Horrible indeed. Oh and thank you, Zoltar for finding my Jus....

*pauses, thinks*

I'm sorry. I have no idea what you're talking about. That impressive and official-looking laminated, Justice League membership card certainly doesn't belong to me.

Really, I found it next to your cherished Green Lantern battery prop.

Zoltar wrote:Really, I found it next to your cherished Green Lantern battery prop.

Hmmmm...definitely not mine I assure you.

Although it might belong to the hatchling. He possesses his very own "Blackest Night" Green Lantern power ring.

Sid Seadevil wrote:Hmmmm...definitely not mine I assure you.

Although it might belong to the hatchling. He possesses his very own "Blackest Night" Green Lantern power ring.

Really? Very cool.

Certainly is. Not so cool for me though - I was the poor sap who actually got conned into buying it for him.

It is a cool ring

Sid Seadevil wrote:I very much appreciated it on a purely technical level. But I simply didn't care. I felt no sense of real concern for the supposed peril to the starship's, its crew and passengers. I felt no elation for the rehabilitation of the older Kazran; I felt little sympathy for Abigail's tragic ultimate fate.

It's the first Christmas Special that hasn't engaged me on the emotional level. It's the first Christmas Special that utterly failed to actually feel special to me.

Interestingly -- and I'm writing this immediately after viewing -- I can get what you mean. I'm not sure I can say I was moved by this, despite finding it a very interesting story, and loving elements of it.

I think it's a similar reaction to listening to a composer like Brahms or Elgar -- who can be wonderfully elegant but often lack the means to stir me on an emotional level. With this, I think you're right that they were really going for a story that moved people -- and no doubt succeeded with many. It just didn't chime enough with me personally, I guess.

Still, as I mentioned before, I think it's an elegant, and well-imagined story, even if it's hard to get your head around all the time-twisting by the end.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Zoltar wrote:My best friend feels the same way. For myself, I like her, but only that. I don't find myself missing her character when she's not around, like in Death of the Doctor or in segments of this special.

What I really want to see happen during Series 6 is the rehabilitation of her character. You know important things such as her actually showing some evidence of genuine love and affection towards Rory, her new husband.

Because as things currently stand nothing would give me more joy than to see her accidentally jettisoned into deepest, darkest space.

I think in Series 5, the writers weren't really in sync over her characterisation. In some episodes, like the one with the Dream Lord and the one with Van Gogh*, I felt really moved by the character writing. In other episodes, my instinct was closer to the suffocation kind. It's telling that in the episodes where I found her character most interesting, the writing was based around her feelings for her (then) fiancee -- a realisation of deeper love in the former, and grief in the latter.

She wasn't around much in this episode, so I can't really comment. It seemed to lack any of the irritating character writing that featured in many series 5 episodes. Did they make this a "companion lite" episode, similar to the way they used to have Doctor/Companion lite episodes in previous series? I don't remember there being one in series 5.

*I simply can't recall the titles at the moment, and shamelessly, I'm not bothered enough to look them up.

Nick Barlow wrote:(If you've ever read Diana Wynne Jones' splendid Tough Guide to Fantasyland, you might recognise where I'm coming from, as it satirically points out that on a whole lot of levels, most fantasy worlds make absolutely no sense or have some very disturbing implications behind them)

Indeed. Most of it bubbles under the surface in this story -- even the revelation at the end that Kazran no longer controls the weather system isn't tackled in terms of what it means for the world. The world seems to be mainly window-dressing. I guess there's not time for everything, but I would have loved to have some of the concepts explored a little more. From a more political-nerd perspective the idea of a world where one man is allowed to control the whole weather system fascinates me, as does the idea of the extreme ways in which capitalism has adapted to new technologies -- allowing people to turn themselves in as security, and sleep away years without ageing a day, until the loan is repaid.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

stanmore wrote:It's strange isn't it? One of the greatest capacities Doctor Who has is the ability to tell different types of story. However, you remove the "interfering in established events is strictly forbidden' thing, and give the Doctor the capacity to interfere with events, then any story can become the Moffat puzzlebox-type. Now, I'm sure that most stories won't, but, now it's been raised as an acceptable plot solution, the "Why doesn't the Doctor just go back" question will be lurking in the air.

Indeed. It is a potentially very dangerous precedent that's been set. The top of a steep and potentially very slippery slope for future producers/writers to take when they've written themselves into a very tight corner.

A trap the Start Trek producers increasingly sprung over the years with their "Big Shiny Red Reset Button".

I think it's possible -- bearing in mind the arc of series 5, no matter how much I disliked the final two-parter -- that Moffat's actually interested in not just using "rewriting time" as a plot trick but actually thinking about it as a story concept, with real consequences. It's of course a risk that it'll become a big shiny red button in the future, but that's really a responsibility that rests with the writers, not something that is guaranteed to happen. After all, they can just explain it away with a single line of scripting the reasons why he can't go back in time in future episodes.

Dingdongalistic wrote:I think it's possible -- bearing in mind the arc of series 5, no matter how much I disliked the final two-parter -- that Moffat's actually interested in not just using "rewriting time" as a plot trick but actually thinking about it as a story concept, with real consequences. It's of course a risk that it'll become a big shiny red button in the future, but that's really a responsibility that rests with the writers, not something that is guaranteed to happen. After all, they can just explain it away with a single line of scripting the reasons why he can't go back in time in future episodes.

Dingdong, old fellow! How lovely to hear from you!

You make some excellent points - and I'm more than willing to suspend judgement on the possibility that Moffat is treating it as a legitimate story concept until we've seen at least the first half of the forthcoming series. I think it's reasonable to at least give it that much time to give us a better idea of whether or not that's going to be the case.

Thanks for the valuable food for thought, old man. And do have a happy New Year and let's be seeing you here more often during 2011!

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Dingdongalistic wrote:I think it's possible -- bearing in mind the arc of series 5, no matter how much I disliked the final two-parter -- that Moffat's actually interested in not just using "rewriting time" as a plot trick but actually thinking about it as a story concept, with real consequences. It's of course a risk that it'll become a big shiny red button in the future, but that's really a responsibility that rests with the writers, not something that is guaranteed to happen. After all, they can just explain it away with a single line of scripting the reasons why he can't go back in time in future episodes.

Dingdong, old fellow! How lovely to hear from you!

You make some excellent points - and I'm more than willing to suspend judgement on the possibility that Moffat is treating it as a legitimate story concept until we've seen at least the first half of the forthcoming series. I think it's reasonable to at least give it that much time to give us a better idea of whether or not that's going to be the case.

Thanks for the valuable food for thought, old man. And do have a happy New Year and let's be seeing you here more often during 2011!

The same to you! And I'll try not to disappoint. You never know, I might get utterly sick of the political waffle and be hit by the reviewing bug again!

The first half of series 6 will be important for me, too. I still felt the long shadow of Davies hanging over Series 5 in places -- Moffat was bold in some respects in where he took the show, but seemed to revert to the old and tired with the finale. And the "fun with time travel" concept can wear thin eventually. But I'm really excited about the prospect of a mid-series cliffhanger.

Dingdongalistic wrote:The same to you! And I'll try not to disappoint. You never know, I might get utterly sick of the political waffle and be hit by the reviewing bug again!

The first half of series 6 will be important for me, too. I still felt the long shadow of Davies hanging over Series 5 in places -- Moffat was bold in some respects in where he took the show, but seemed to revert to the old and tired with the finale. And the "fun with time travel" concept can wear thin eventually. But I'm really excited about the prospect of a mid-series cliffhanger.

Agreed. I definitely think the idea of a mid-series cliffhanger is an inspired stroke. I must admit, for all my misgivings, I'm still more than willing to believe that Moffat will finally emerge from RTD's long shadow.

Sid Seadevil wrote:

Dingdongalistic wrote:The first half of series 6 will be important for me, too. I still felt the long shadow of Davies hanging over Series 5 in places -- Moffat was bold in some respects in where he took the show, but seemed to revert to the old and tired with the finale. And the "fun with time travel" concept can wear thin eventually. But I'm really excited about the prospect of a mid-series cliffhanger.

Agreed. I definitely think the idea of a mid-series cliffhanger is an inspired stroke. I must admit, for all my misgivings, I'm still more than willing to believe that Moffat will finally emerge from RTD's long shadow.

The problem I see is that Steven Moffat is not just head writer, he also has an executive producer's hat on, and he can see a successful formula, that has brought Doctor Who back from the grave as a massive hit. How much is Moffat the Exec stopping Moffat the Writer from moving out of the RTD shadow. Let's hope that the success of A Christmas Carol which was very un-RTD will be enough to allow Moffat the Writer wins out in this particular struggle and finally takes the series 100% in the direction he wants to take it.

The Browncoat Cat wrote:The problem I see is that Steven Moffat is not just head writer, he also has an executive producer's hat on, and he can see a successful formula, that has brought Doctor Who back from the grave as a massive hit. How much is Moffat the Exec stopping Moffat the Writer from moving out of the RTD shadow. Let's hope that the success of A Christmas Carol which was very un-RTD will be enough to allow Moffat the Writer wins out in this particular struggle and finally takes the series 100% in the direction he wants to take it.

Interesting point you raise, Cat. Since it's likely that we're never going to be allowed an in-depth look into Moffat's decision making thought processes via an RTD-like The Writer's Tale book, that's a question that might never satisfactorily be answered. But it does seem like a very viable possibility.

I also wonder just how much (if at all) his producer's hat decisions are at least unconsciously informed by having a wife and mother-in-law who are also experienced producers in their own right?

But that aside, all we can do is wait. At least some of the answers to our questions will doubtless begin to slowly surface over the coming months.

I loved it as a good fun Christmassy episode.. but I wouldn't want to watch it too often..

I gave it 1/5 but really it deserved 0/5. Sub-Tim Burtonish banal fare with a confused plot . Unengaging to the extent that I kept switching over to Emmerdale.