Rate "The Pandorica Opens"

Dave Webb wrote:

Mrs Lee wrote:If I was to watch Who picking at everything that was wrong I would stop watching it as all of the episodes have flaws; all that matters is if the flaws stop you enjoying it.

You crack me up.

Why?

loved it! how are they going to get out of it?

Seventeen 5/5's! I think we may be looking at the highest Wrinkly AI figure yet.

barnaby morbius wrote:loved it! how are they going to get out of it?

There's an escape pod that takes The Doctor up to a waiting Honda Civic on the A303.

*nods*

stanmore wrote:Different types of people have different ranking systems. Dave seems to have a system in which all elements are considered (which is more likely to produce a marking out of five more towards the centre) as opposed to an overall impression of a story. He can correct me if that's wrong...

I tend to rank out of ten, with five being 'an average episode of Doctor Who'. That can make my marks seem low if you don't realise that 'an average episode of Doctor Who' is something I enjoy very much¹. Therefore seven is actually brilliant, and only two modern episodes have got as high as nine²...

barnaby morbius wrote:loved it! how are they going to get out of it?

Hopefully not by a preciously-unseen magic trapdoor³...


1) In much the same way that 'a below average episode of The West Wing' would still be brilliant, and 'the best-ever episode of Friends' would still be tedious bum-gravy...
2) Go on, guess. You know you want to...
3) The Berk's way out...

Graymalkin wrote:

stanmore wrote:Different types of people have different ranking systems. Dave seems to have a system in which all elements are considered (which is more likely to produce a marking out of five more towards the centre) as opposed to an overall impression of a story. He can correct me if that's wrong...

I tend to rank out of ten, with five being 'an average episode of Doctor Who'. That can make my marks seem low if you don't realise that 'an average episode of Doctor Who' is something I enjoy very much¹. Therefore seven is actually brilliant, and only two modern episodes have got as high as nine²...

2) Go on, guess. You know you want to...

I remember you not being a particular fan of Series 4... Um... Human Nature and Gridlock?

I tend to imagine I'm ranking it for someone that has never seen the story before

***** - a classic, even people that don't like Dr Who should check this out
**** - good, but people new to it should acknowledge not only that it is Dr Who, and is limited by the constructs of the show, and of the time when it was made
*** - either a curate's egg or solid but not spectacular. Down the years, I've found that Doctor Who generally tends to mix the sublime with the ridiculous much more often than it does The Masque of Mandragora...
** - poor, but enough qualities to understand why those with an allegiance to that era might like it.
* - s***.

stanmore wrote:I remember you not being a particular fan of Series 4... Um... Human Nature and Gridlock?

Quite close, actually - it would be 'The Family of Blood' and 'The Sound of Drums'.

I tend to imagine I'm ranking it for someone that has never seen the story before...

That's quite an interesting way of doing it - I imagine 'Smith and Jones' would get ten out of ten in that system?

Graymalkin wrote:

I tend to imagine I'm ranking it for someone that has never seen the story before...

That's quite an interesting way of doing it - I imagine 'Smith and Jones' would get ten out of ten in that system?

I'd rate Smith and Jones as 4/5 - it's just a little flimsy if viewed in isolation. Perhaps 5/5 as seen as part 1 of a thirteen part series (which, to be fair, it is)...

stanmore wrote:I'd rate Smith and Jones as 4/5 - it's just a little flimsy if viewed in isolation. Perhaps 5/5 as seen as part 1 of a thirteen part series (which, to be fair, it is)...

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood - for some reason I thought you were rating for people who'd never seen Doctor Who before (and I've always thought 'Smith and Jones' would be the perfect introductory episode)...

Graymalkin wrote:

stanmore wrote:I'd rate Smith and Jones as 4/5 - it's just a little flimsy if viewed in isolation. Perhaps 5/5 as seen as part 1 of a thirteen part series (which, to be fair, it is)...

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood - for some reason I thought you were rating for people who'd never seen Doctor Who before (and I've always thought 'Smith and Jones' would be the perfect introductory episode)...

I am, I do imagine that I'm rating for someone that had never seen Dr Who before, but on top of that I imagine that each story is stand-alone - so not only do I imagine that it's the first thing they see, but also potentially the last. And as a feast, Smith and Jones is not entirely filling, however nice it may taste. (I suppose all introductary stories should be like that... leave you wanting more...)

stanmore wrote:Different types of people have different ranking systems. Dave seems to have a system in which all elements are considered (which is more likely to produce a marking out of five more towards the centre) as opposed to an overall impression of a story. He can correct me if that's wrong...

I don't think acknowledging flaws doesn't stop you enjoying a story, in the same way acknowledging plus points stops you finding a story displeasurable.

If I had to sit down and consider thoroughly why I rate a story the way I do, I think that would probably be how I'd put it.

Graymalkin wrote:
I tend to rank out of ten, with five being 'an average episode of Doctor Who'. That can make my marks seem low if you don't realise that 'an average episode of Doctor Who' is something I enjoy very much¹. Therefore seven is actually brilliant, and only two modern episodes have got as high as nine...

Likewise. I often feel you take the rating of the stories a bit more seriously than I do, what with the nature of subjective opinions and so forth it's actually quite hard to compare one person's 4/5 with another because those marks might have been arrived at by quite different means and for quite different reasons.

As an aside, this is why teachers have mark schemes that are quite clearly set out and why a lot of educators still debate what some of those criteria can mean.

That said, the ratings thread is just a place where we say what we thought about the show we've just seen.

Mrs Lee wrote:Why?

For the short time we've actually spent talking face to face you struck me as being someone with a decent sense of humour and also as someone with a sharp wit. So when you say something as obvious as "don't watch it if you don't like it" in a thread where there's been little to no negativity, on a forum where negativity is largely absent, to people who are all adults and who are quite capable of turning the TV off when they want to, but who nevertheless have been sticking by the show in some cases for decades because it does something for them that, even at it's worst, no other show does...
...well, I have to assume you were using irony or taking a satirical swipe at other forums.

Given the likelyhood of you attempting to teach Wrinlikes to suck eggs, I went with the humour. In a thread full of massively approving comments, you remind us that if we don't like it we shouldn't watch it. That's got to be comedy.

Or am I mistaken?

Dave Webb wrote:
For the short time we've actually spent talking face to face you struck me as being someone with a decent sense of humour and also as someone with a sharp wit. So when you say something as obvious as "don't watch it if you don't like it" in a thread where there's been little to no negativity, on a forum where negativity is largely absent, to people who are all adults and who are quite capable of turning the TV off when they want to, but who nevertheless have been sticking by the show in some cases for decades because it does something for them that, even at it's worst, no other show does...
...well, I have to assume you were using irony or taking a satirical swipe at other forums.

Given the likelyhood of you attempting to teach Wrinlikes to suck eggs, I went with the humour. In a thread full of massively approving comments, you remind us that if we don't like it we shouldn't watch it. That's got to be comedy.

Or am I mistaken?

Sorry, but as a mod I think you're going very close breaking your own rules here, as that comes very close to a personal attack.

From my point of view, I do think the Wrinkly Boards have become far more negative than they were during the RTD years-- I seem to recall the criticism some of us received after we posted our views on The Daleks In Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks, as well as the stirling work defending Chris Chibnall's writing during the first half of season one of Torchwood. So it's rather galling to come to these boards to escape the barrage of abuse hurled upon the new series over at Gallifrey Base only to find even more criticism. Now, I'm not saying that the new series is above criticism, nor that it should never be criticised, but surely the Wrinklies were formed to be an alternative to that negative mindset.

What happened to the "It's all Doctor Who to me" ethos?

Lee, I think there's debate here and no more. To compare this place to GB is just completely wrong. The voting, and feedback, for this episode in particular, but infact the series as a whole with few exceptions, is incredibly positive.

The big problem I have is that peope don't contribute sufficiently to this forum, and that is a betrayal of Wrinklydom itself.

I don't think the negativity here is anything at all compared to other forums. Yes we criticize occasionally and there are things better. But I think generally we've got a very positive attitude towards the show that we do clearly love. As far as I can remember there's never been an 'RTD/Moffat must go' thread here at all.

And look at the poll at the top of this very page. 80% of the people that have posted so far give this episode a 5/5, quite rightly too! However, I can understand criticisms and let's face it, different people have different tastes. That's why some consider Delta and the Bannermen to be the worst story ever while others put it in their top 10's.

Lee Carey wrote:

Dave Webb wrote:
For the short time we've actually spent talking face to face you struck me as being someone with a decent sense of humour and also as someone with a sharp wit. So when you say something as obvious as "don't watch it if you don't like it" in a thread where there's been little to no negativity, on a forum where negativity is largely absent, to people who are all adults and who are quite capable of turning the TV off when they want to, but who nevertheless have been sticking by the show in some cases for decades because it does something for them that, even at it's worst, no other show does...
...well, I have to assume you were using irony or taking a satirical swipe at other forums.

Given the likelyhood of you attempting to teach Wrinlikes to suck eggs, I went with the humour. In a thread full of massively approving comments, you remind us that if we don't like it we shouldn't watch it. That's got to be comedy.

Or am I mistaken?

Sorry, but as a mod I think you're going very close breaking your own rules here, as that comes very close to a personal attack.

From my point of view, I do think the Wrinkly Boards have become far more negative than they were during the RTD years-- I seem to recall the criticism some of us received after we posted our views on The Daleks In Manhattan and Evolution of the Daleks, as well as the stirling work defending Chris Chibnall's writing during the first half of season one of Torchwood. So it's rather galling to come to these boards to escape the barrage of abuse hurled upon the new series over at Gallifrey Base only to find even more criticism. Now, I'm not saying that the new series is above criticism, nor that it should never be criticised, but surely the Wrinklies were formed to be an alternative to that negative mindset.

What happened to the "It's all Doctor Who to me" ethos?

i've been a bit more negative than before i suppose- but there have been a few stories this year like the beast below, victory of the daleks and the hungry earth that i've not liked very much. i've praised the 11th hour, amy's choice, the time of the angels, vincent, the lodger and this weeks to high heaven though..

i'm not going to pretend i liked something when i didn't. sorry.

but it's better than Gallifrey Base for chrissakes!!

Can we not compare to other forum's specifically please.

Johnstone McGuckian wrote:Can we not compare to other forum's specifically please.

ok it's better than *********** &&&& or *********** *****. don't suppose it really matters though- not many people are on here anyway...

From the 276 votes that have been gathered only 21 (7.6%) have rated below 3/5 and only 4 (1.2%) votes have rated a story as a 1/5 disaster. And the comments have reflected that. I became aware of you guys around series 3 and from memory, there was always an honesty regarding how one* felt about a story - I mean the alternative is to have this thread called "the say [the story] is wonderful thread."

I think the problem with this place being a forum rather than a thread is that it doesn't seem like an oasis any more. You know, if this was on the same page as thread called "Angry. Very" and a Mad Larry debate, it would be nigh on impossible to criticise. In much the same way that the disappointment is only in the context of the levels of appreciation of RTD's work.

*sorry for using the word "one"

Lee Carey wrote:Now, I'm not saying that the new series is above criticism, nor that it should never be criticised, but surely the Wrinklies were formed to be an alternative to that negative mindset.

Speaking to this part of your post, I don't see much of a negative mindset here. I see people who like some episodes and don't like others, which is perfectly normal. There aren't scores of negative threads and "haters", just differing opinions. And, as Stan said, another reason the Wrinklies exist is so that such differences of opinion can be discussed without it needing to get heated.

Hmm, I'm wondering whether this debate may be better served having its own thread, but:

stanmore wrote:I think the problem with this place being a forum rather than a thread is that it doesn't seem like an oasis any more.

This is very, very pertinent, and possibly the reason to my growing disillusionment.

In much the same way that the disappointment is only in the context of the levels of appreciation of RTD's work.

But this I don't understand, as if that's the case every criticism of Davies work is equally as valid as the critic can say their level of appreciation of Davies' Dr Who was in context to their level of appreciation of whichever classic Dr Who they liked to compare it to (which was usually the Hinchcliffe years).

In which case, Sparacus is right. Which is an idea I'd like to not contemplate at this point in time.

As I've said, I have absolutely no problems with constructive criticism of the new series, and appreciate that for some (Nick, Barnaby and Rich in particular) it simply hasn't ticked the boxes that the previous five years have. But there is still, from some quarters, a continual stream of negativity that I find hard to understand. The anti-Chibnal campaign in particular I find hard to stomach.

Maybe I should simply step back for a while and leave fandom.

Lee Carey wrote:

In much the same way that the disappointment is only in the context of the levels of appreciation of RTD's work.

But this I don't understand, as if that's the case every criticism of Davies work is equally as valid as the critic can say their level of appreciation of Davies' Dr Who was in context to their level of appreciation of whichever classic Dr Who they liked to compare it to (which was usually the Hinchcliffe years).

Generally, often when people are asked how good an episode is they think they're being asked "how similar is it to x's era?" I don't think people do that here. But after four serieses of constantly being made to think, entertained and surprised, you are going to notice when the next series does that less to you. And even then, I don't think there's a "constant stream of negativity." Perhaps "permanent air of disenchantment" from some of us (probably including me).

Lee Carey wrote:Maybe I should simply step back for a while and leave fandom.

Sounds like an idea. It's sunny outside

Can't we all get along? Doc Filth has a job, for crissakes. We should be celebrating!

Only one more episode and then we have a break until Christmas. We are getting Christmas episode, right?

I liked Pandorica and I've only liked a few of the episodes this season.

(see what I did there- cunningly brought the conversation back on topic mwhahahaha )

Rich Flair wrote:Can't we all get along? Doc Filth has a job, for crissakes. We should be celebrating!

Best post by Rich Flair EVAH!